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Brian Austin
(footeab) - F

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Another leak on 10/21/2011 14:29:38 MDT Print View

Question:

Why can't you roll the bag to obtain the pressure? No, I don't have one of these new nifty toys, but am interested.

People are not liking the squeeze funciont. I would think rolling would be easier and create more pressure forcing the water through faster.

At least rolling is always faster when deflating rubber rafts and air mattreses.

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
squeeze on 10/21/2011 16:42:50 MDT Print View

Platys will work fine with it, and are more durable.

They need to include a quality "tornado tube" type (male-to-male) adapter for connecting to water bottles on the outlet end though, and beef up the bags a bit. the tornado tubes you can buy are poorly made and brittle.

By letting you connect a clean platy on the outlet, you can backflush by squeezing too, and dont need a syringe.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Platys on a Sawyer squeeze on 10/21/2011 16:48:38 MDT Print View

I tried a Platy and the threads didn't match. I could get it started, but it felt like it would strip and definitely wouldn't thread down far enough to seat and seal. What model did you use?

Edit: I was going back and forth on this and did an actual test of a Platy on the Sawyer and it leaks. I made another post with a photo of the two bottle threads and found that the Sawyer is a finer pitch. I would fear that forcing it could eventually damage the threads on the filter housing and I don't recommend it. The leak does trickle down the side of the filter and would drop dirty water straight into any container below.

Another poster mentioned using an o-ring rather than the flat washer supplied with the filter. That may allow it to seal, but I would be careful. Some of the Platy bladders I have actually started to thread on an angle, and all my mechanical experience says it is just the wrong fit. I did note differences in the thickness of the threads on several Platy products, but the pitch (the angle and spacing of the threads) is the same between them. The exit nozzle/end cap threads easily on both Sawyer and Platy bags and mislead me as well.

Edited by dwambaugh on 10/22/2011 07:51:21 MDT.

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
Rolling on 10/21/2011 16:59:34 MDT Print View

Rolling is exactly what I did, and probably contributed to the problem.

Explanation: I'm about 60 and have tremors familiar (sp?), which means my hands shake more and more as I get older. Trying to squeeze the Sawyer bag while aiming at the mouth of a Platypus left half the filtered water on the ground. So I used my left hand to hold the Sawyer filter and Platypus mouths in alignment, and squeezed with my right hand. After the initial squeeze, I rolled the top (bottom?) of the bag down (like on their cutsey advertising video), wrapped my thumb around the rolled section and my fingers on either side of the throat and squeezed. Rolled some more and squeezed. In three days, the Sawyer bag was leaking.

My guess is (Sawyer would not confirm this in correspondence with them) that by squeezing the bag on either side of the throat I created creases in the plastic of the bag, which (1) led to the leak developing and (2) Sawyer took as evidence of "wringing".

So if you roll the bag, do be careful of how you squeeze it - Do not use any force on the bag next to the throat which causes the bag to fold there. You will create a leak and have Sawyer accuse you of wringing!

I'd like to see Sawyer develop a more pliable bag, or at least do a (serious) video on how to squeeze the bag one-handed while aligning the filter opening with a narrow bottle opening. Again, Sawyer did not comment on this request.

Again, I still like the system, and appreciate Sawyer replacing my bag (I also bought some extras from them - though the suggestion of using Platypus bags sounds good!) despite their verdict of unauthorized wringing.

The tornado tube is a great idea!

Edited by grampa on 10/21/2011 17:05:04 MDT.

Ike Mouser
(isaac.mouser) - F
Chemicals? on 10/21/2011 17:46:55 MDT Print View

Are u all using chems in addition to this, im hiking 75 miles of the AT in novmber and dont really want to wait for the chems. I normally use bleach and wait 30 min.

John Smith
(CSNeoM4A1) - F
Well on 10/21/2011 18:13:06 MDT Print View

I don't plan on using any chems with this. But a drop or two of bleach would not hurt anything.

Has anyone found a usable (not brittle) tornado tube? I found some on amazon but have yet to buy one.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Chemicals? on 10/21/2011 18:30:06 MDT Print View

I don't use chemicals with the filter, but I carry MicroPur tablets for backup. In North America a 0.1 micron filter will get the usual parasites and bacteria. In other areas you may need to deal with viruses like polio and hepatitis and the chemicals are a good choice there. Ben has a lot of info on using bleach.

I like the filter as I can carry less water and not have the time issues. There is usually too much water where I hike. I have used a Steripen in the same way, but I prefer actually removing the bugs than just zapping them; also, there are no batteries to fuss with, and no issues with containers. The weight between the Sawyer and a Steripen is a wash if I remember right, maybe less when considering spare batteries or heavier containers with a wide mouth. It is still a mechanical device, so I carry the chemicals for backup. I've used a pump filter like a Katadyn Hiker Pro for group/family trips, but I think it's too heavy for solo use. The Sawyer has better filtration specs too.

Jim Fitzgerald
(jimfitz12000) - M

Locale: Southern California
Sawyer/Frontier Pro on 10/21/2011 18:32:55 MDT Print View

I recently spoke with an Aquamira customer service rep re my Frontier Pro filter, which they immediately and willingly replaced. For whatever reason, my Frontier Pro, which I used in gravity flow set up for less than a week, became clogged and impeded flow.

The Aquamira rep told me they would soon release a filter system with their "squeeze" bags. Rep said bags will not be Platys, but from a contract manufacturer. Maybe the yet to be released Aquamira bags will withstand “wringing” and be a worthy alternative to Sawyer?

Andy F
(AndyF) - M
Re: Chemicals? on 10/21/2011 18:52:17 MDT Print View

My experience and approach match Dale's, except I haven't used a Steripen. I like that I don't have to add chemicals to great-tasting water.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Sawyer/Frontier Pro on 10/21/2011 19:01:30 MDT Print View

Good question.

Did the rep mention new filters with smaller pores?

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
No Chemicals on 10/21/2011 19:12:55 MDT Print View

Like Dale, I've used the Steripen with good success. I cut the top off a Nalgene "canteen" and zapped the bugs in it, then poured into a lightweight container (Platypus or Aquamira bottle. I may go back to it if I can't find a good way to deal with the fragile Sawyer bag thing.

For decades, I used to use iodine exclusively. Nasty taste! I'd rather not do chemicals now that there are so many other good alternatives.

Now I use a Frontier "suck thru" filter as back-up.

Hoot Filsinger
(filsinger) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: squeeze on 10/21/2011 19:27:01 MDT Print View

I replaced the hose washer with the same diameter thin black neoprene washers and platys and other bottles seal nicely.

Paul Osborn
(bcoutdoors) - F
passed on the feedback on 10/21/2011 20:09:54 MDT Print View

Hi all,

I'm not connected to sawyer, but I did pass on your feedback to one of their reps. It'll be interesting to see their response.

John Smith
(CSNeoM4A1) - F
So... on 10/21/2011 20:13:08 MDT Print View

I guess my current plan is to use a 2L platy for the dirty water bag and get a tornado tube or some equivalent so I can also use a 2L platy or standard bottle for the clean water.

I am still wondering how long a hose would be needed to make this filter work as a gravity filter? Basically how much head pressure is required to force water through it.

Kristin Fiebelkorn
(kushbaby)

Locale: South Texas
Don't need a tornado tube, just two caps with holes... on 10/21/2011 20:56:31 MDT Print View

I have a Sawyer Squeeze, and am pretty happy with it. The bags *feel* more fragile than the Platys, so I just plan to use a Platy as a dirty bag when the Sawyer bags give out. Meanwhile, no need for anything fancy like a tornado tube. I took one look at the squirt cap and decided that that was a recipe for a big pain in the tuckus. So, I took two extra Platypus closure caps, made a hole in each of them about 1/2" in diameter, and taped them back to back with waterproof athletic tape (local drugstore brand). Has held together very well so far (a couple of several day trips), and easy to fix (more tape) or replace if it fails. (I even "borrowed" some of the waterproof tape off of the connecter for a hot spot.) It makes it a LOT easier to use. I keep the connector attached to the filter unit and put a baggie over it to keep it from getting contaminated by dirty water (I added a rubber band after the trip where I took this photo, to be extra safe). To fill the dirty bag it's easy - cut a very lightweight cheap water bottle in half, and use the bottom half as a dedicated water scoop. (Don't want to use my mug, then I'd have to disinfect it!)

(EDIT TO ADD: You can't tell in the photo, but I am holding the two bags connected to the filter suspended in the air. The tape held together that well.)

BTW, if you try this, use a smaller drill bit and then enlarge the hole. I tried a bigger bit at first and the caps sort of cracked. Had to start over...)

Here are some pics:Sawyer connector 2Sawyer connector 1Sawyer kit setup

Edited by kushbaby on 10/21/2011 20:58:42 MDT.

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
Caps and Tape!!! on 10/21/2011 21:05:05 MDT Print View

Nice set up, Kristin!

Kristin Fiebelkorn
(kushbaby)

Locale: South Texas
Re: Caps and Tape!!! on 10/21/2011 21:11:02 MDT Print View

> Nice set up, Kristin!

Thanks - it makes it REALLY easy. I just stand or sit comfortably, hold the dirty bag up with one hand, and squeeze. Gravity does a wee bit of work, but you do have to squeeze unless you want to be there all day (I'm impatient - I don't use chemicals, though I carry Micropur as backup - I drink right away). No leaks yet for me, but I was instinctively careful around the collar (though it may just be a matter of time).

Heavily waterproof-taped double cap connector plus little baggie weighs 8 grams on my scale...

Ike Mouser
(isaac.mouser) - F
Im next on 10/21/2011 23:12:36 MDT Print View

Im gonna get this setup but im not fooling with sawyer bags, why not just use platys fform the beginning? If you bust a bag, thats extra weight you gotta pack out. I have older platys from a few years ago, hope they work.

John Smith
(CSNeoM4A1) - F
Platys on 10/22/2011 07:08:40 MDT Print View

So stay away from the soft bottle platypus bags and get the traditional ones in order for the threads to match?

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
connector on 10/22/2011 07:34:27 MDT Print View

for filling a clean bottle, I have no doubt the two caps taped together works good.

Have you attempted to backflush it that way? Thats where I would be concerned about it coming apart or leaking.

My first consideration was to make my own connector like that, by welding or gluing the PE caps together and drilling out. But when you can buy the tornado tube for $3, there was no point. Have to trim the tornado tube shorter, ~3/16" from each end though or it hits filter neck before seals up. I just held mine against side of a grinding wheel for a few seconds and done.