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What quilt ?
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William Zila
(Ultralightwillinn.m) - MLife

Locale: Albuquerque
What quilt ? on 05/22/2011 15:40:26 MDT Print View

I am looking for a quilt to handle temps down to mid 20s it will be paried with a katabatic bristlecone bivy light weight base layers a montbell ul down inner parka features I want a perminent foot box like the katabatics, the head section needs to attach some how and have a drawcord so I can get it snug around my kneck I am looking at the katabatic Chisos I've heard katabatic runs very conservative on there temps ? I am switching from a mh phantom 45 which is a amazing bag but after trying a buddies quilt I'll never look back at mummy's I was warm with that bag and bivy plus the clothes I mentioned down to 20s I us a neoair small for temps above freezing and a snyamat ul7 for below what quilt ? Like I said the Chisos looks amazing I would say I sleep slightly warm and most nights I spend out are above freezing so whatcha guys think ? The fill weight on the Chisos Is the same as the phantom which is the reason I believe it would be warm enough i love katabatics products and would love to support them more and pick up one of there quilts but what other options do you guys think would fit the bill

Joseph Ainsworth
(jainsworth123) - F

Locale: Greater LA area
Re: What quilt ? on 05/22/2011 15:49:25 MDT Print View

I would say the Chisos would be warm to low-mid 30s if it's anything like their other bags. As far as it getting you down to the mid 20s, that would depend entirely on the rest of your system, but it looks like it'll work for you. Though in stretching the temps that much, you might be better off getting the palisades and carrying less clothing, as that would get you to the right temp with just base layers at most, and only add 3 oz.
Other than that, if you want something with a full footbox and a draft collar or the equivalent, I don't think you can find anything that matches katabatic in their price range. Nunatak makes great products, but if you don't need custom, I would stick with katabatic.

William Zila
(Ultralightwillinn.m) - MLife

Locale: Albuquerque
System on 05/22/2011 16:04:33 MDT Print View

I always bring my montbell and base layers so there not really "added weight" but high 20s is the lowest it will almost ever get most nights are at or above freezing

Mat Tallman
(wehtaM) - F

Locale: Midwest
. on 05/22/2011 16:39:18 MDT Print View

we really need to get you a period button, these posts are mind numbing to read...I generally give up after 1 or 2 lines.

Joseph Ainsworth
(jainsworth123) - F

Locale: Greater LA area
Re: System on 05/22/2011 16:46:59 MDT Print View

also remember, you're going to need some pretty decent head gear to go into the 20s with. Probably more than a hood from a jacket will provide, so factor that in as well.

John Vance
(Servingko) - F

Locale: Intermountain West
Chisos on 05/22/2011 16:59:13 MDT Print View

I have a Sawatch and am looking at adding a Chisos with a 2oz overfill. After speaking with Aaron a number of times, I feel confident that this would work down into the twenties for me. I spent several years taking a WM Highlite into the same temps with no problems.

I looked long and hard at the Palisade but as a tossing and turning side sleeper, I think the extra down density with overfill in the Chisos will work better. There are no returns on overfilled bags so if you go that route you'll have to be sure it's right for you.

William Zila
(Ultralightwillinn.m) - MLife

Locale: Albuquerque
Head warmth on 05/22/2011 18:23:15 MDT Print View

Is the black rock down benie a good option for head insulation? Or is there something better. I figured a dowm benie and if i got cold I have the montbell and the hood as well as the benie ?

Joseph Ainsworth
(jainsworth123) - F

Locale: Greater LA area
Re: Chisos on 05/22/2011 18:41:55 MDT Print View

I find below 30 I need a balaclava or the equivalent to cover my face. The beanie works great for the head, but my nose and lips get really cold. A standard fleece beanie works great and if you don't need down, I would suggest staying away from it, as the down in front of your mouth gets damp from you breath throughout the night.

Stephan Doyle
(StephanCal)
Re: What quilt ? on 05/22/2011 18:51:55 MDT Print View

The Phantom 45 is EN tested to ~33-35º, if I recall correctly. Just to give a reference point.

I think a Chisos might work. Let's say Aaron is conservative in his ratings, and so it's a 35-37º quilt. Quite similar to the Phantom 45.

What it comes down to is what you're comfortable with. If you do enough backpacking below freezing, the Palisade might win out.

As posted above, 2oz of overfill in a Chisos will give you a just-about-as-warm Palisade (with less loft). I think I could get behind that, but you might as well order a Palisade for the extra loft IMO at that point.

William Zila
(Ultralightwillinn.m) - MLife

Locale: Albuquerque
Temps on 05/22/2011 19:06:51 MDT Print View

Most of the nights I spend in the season I'd say 80% are at or above freezing. For that reason I am leaning towards the Chisos the bivy adds about 5 degrees for me and about the same for the jacket. So I figure if the Chisos is a 35% quilt the bivy alone will take it down to right below freezing. Couple the bag and bivy with the jacket and I'm comfortable at a low temp into the 20s.So I have some insurance if the temps drop more then expected. I have a rab summit 400 for the shoulder season so I think the palasade would be overkill. I can tolerate some cold And still sleep fine

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
"What quilt ?" on 05/22/2011 19:15:41 MDT Print View

William,

Some background. Are you looking for a summer weight quilt? Will this quilt be your only quilt for backpacking year round?

Curious. Why are you trying to push a 40F rated quilt down to the 20's? To save 2.5oz? This may work in a pinch, for a mild overnight, but your margin of comfort/safety is very slim in the event weather takes a turn for the worst. From your original post, you seem to be basing your decision off of the hypothetical ideal scenario (above freezing temps), but you know, as a New Mexican, that backpacking up high in northern NM can turn at the drop of a hat even in July.

If you're looking for a quilt to handle temperatures down into the mid 20's then give yourself a margin of safety and eliminate weight somewhere else, cutting weight in your quilt choice and going with a 40F rated summer quilt for below freezing backpacking (mid 20's) is a silly decision... IMO.

Charles Henry
(Chuckie_Cheese)

Locale: Arizona and British Columbia
1 on 05/22/2011 19:21:29 MDT Print View

Katabatic Quilts look great and pushing your quilt could work at first, but what about in the longer term? After a year or two and alot of backpacking trips, washing etc, your quilt can lose some loft and then you'll have a 30+ degree setup only. I'm going to go with a Palisade for trips around zero min.

Charles Henry
(Chuckie_Cheese)

Locale: Arizona and British Columbia
1 on 05/22/2011 19:26:37 MDT Print View

When you say your a tossing and turning sleeper, so you prefer the overfilling, what do you mean?

I thought these quilts can be ratcheted onto the sleeping pad, so you can move and turn and the pad stays in the correct position.

William Zila
(Ultralightwillinn.m) - MLife

Locale: Albuquerque
Great point Eugene on 05/22/2011 19:32:47 MDT Print View

Yes new Mexico weather is extremly undpredictable.I am considering the palisade i know I won't feel those 3 ounces on my back. ButI will feel the extra warmth at night. Thank you for bringing me off my spreadsheet thinking of but it's 3 ounces lighter. And getting me to think logically.thinking about it one time me andy buddy went to sandia crest it was mid July and it snowed and temps dropped to 20. I think I will go with the palisade I like being warm

Joseph Ainsworth
(jainsworth123) - F

Locale: Greater LA area
Re: 1 on 05/22/2011 19:34:11 MDT Print View

I think what he meant is that the down shifts around in the bag when he moves, but I've found they already are almost to the point of being overstuffed and haven't had a problem with either of mine. I see no reason why the Chisos would be any different.

Mark Hudson
(vesteroid) - MLife

Locale: Eastern Sierras
Temps on 05/22/2011 19:36:43 MDT Print View

Think pushing sleep systems down 20 degrees is asking a lot.

Pads are as important as the quilt here. You are going to need a r4 pad or similar to really handle 20

On the other hand katabatics are a great quilt. Of the order today ship today quilts they are the best

William Zila
(Ultralightwillinn.m) - MLife

Locale: Albuquerque
I pulled the trigger on 05/22/2011 21:04:06 MDT Print View

Well after lots of research I decided on the palisade I can only afford 1 quilt so this looks like the one

Joseph Ainsworth
(jainsworth123) - F

Locale: Greater LA area
Re: I pulled the trigger on 05/22/2011 21:21:00 MDT Print View

Remember, you still need some decent head coverage in the twenties regardless of how warm the quilt is.

William Zila
(Ultralightwillinn.m) - MLife

Locale: Albuquerque
Balaclava on 05/22/2011 21:55:11 MDT Print View

Is a fleece balaclava and a fleece benie enough to keep my head warm ?

Joseph Ainsworth
(jainsworth123) - F

Locale: Greater LA area
Re: Balaclava on 05/22/2011 21:56:52 MDT Print View

I have found that a fleece balaclava is enough for me down to the mid twenties. Below that, throw on a hood from whatever jacket you have or an extra beanie and I'm good down to about 15 or so. But even at 30 I still like the balaclava for the face coverage.