Ti Foil screen for small pot
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Daniel Fosse
(magillagorilla) - F

Locale: Southwest Ohio
Ti Foil screen for small pot on 05/18/2011 15:09:52 MDT Print View

Just fishing for ideas on a Ti foil windscreen. Got some foil from Titanium Goat. This is for my SP600. I've made many out of aluminium flashing for various pots. I'd like it to seat in the pot and support the pot using cross tent pegs. This limits the screen to about 3.5in high.

Bob Gross mentioned that the optimum side of pot to screen wall was in the 1/2in neighborhood. Or 1 standard finger (not a metric finger mind you)

I've had mostly good results with a pot height of 1.25-1.5in from Esbit and tea light burners.

I'd really like to know what people are doing for clasps to hold the screen together.

I wanted Ti because it seems like it would last a long time and can handle burning wood. Some of my older aluminium screens are starting to fail at the clasp.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Ti Foil screen for small pot on 05/18/2011 16:14:04 MDT Print View

"I'd really like to know what people are doing for clasps to hold the screen together."

There isn't much force trying to open the windscreen up, so it doesn't take a very strong clasp to keep it closed. If you have a non-wood fire, there isn't much heat. I've used a paper clip or a bulldog (binder) clip on the top edge. Once I used a paper clip on one side and a tiny hole on the other side, and the clip went into the hole. If you have a wood fire with hotter temperatures, then I suggest the bulldog clip.

--B.G.--

Richard Gless
(rgless) - MLife

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Clasps for Ti Foil wind screen for small pot on 05/18/2011 17:42:19 MDT Print View

Someone else suggested old fashioned woman's hairpins in an old BPL thread. They weigh essentially nothing. Works for me.

Daniel Fosse
(magillagorilla) - F

Locale: Southwest Ohio
Re: Clasps for Ti Foil wind screen for small pot on 05/18/2011 17:48:25 MDT Print View

Thanks for the suggestions thus far. I may go with the buckle latch again. I don't like the idea of needing those tiny parts to make my cook system work.

Scott S
(sschloss1) - F

Locale: New England
Ti Foil screen for small pot on 05/18/2011 20:10:18 MDT Print View

I use paper clips for my ti foil windscreen. I haven't had any trouble with wear at the spot where I attach the clips.

Mark Fowler
(KramRelwof) - MLife

Locale: Namadgi
Metric fingers on 05/19/2011 05:28:11 MDT Print View

All fingers are metric - they come in sets of 10.

Daniel Fosse
(magillagorilla) - F

Locale: Southwest Ohio
Ti wind screen on 05/19/2011 07:45:13 MDT Print View

OK, I cut my screen. You guys are right, a paper clip is fine. This foil is not nearly as springy as aluminium flashing. That Ti foil can be cantankerous to cut, tough stuff. I managed with some heavy kitchen sheers (hope my wife doesn't read this, hehe).

I'm not sure how I'm gunna puntch out my peg holes. My paper puntch is not deep enoug to hit the mark. I used a drill on the flashing, don't know if this works on the Ti foil. Even on the aluminium the drill kinda just shreaded a hole that I had to sand down.

kevin timm
(ktimm) - M

Locale: Colorado (SeekOutside)
Ti Foil on 05/19/2011 08:55:25 MDT Print View

I find punching holes works best with a good punch. A paper punch isn't really sufficient and might leave wierd bends. Drilling, won't make clean holes with stuff that thin. You can get a punch set from northern tool for $30.

For the record we have titanium foil as well, a bit different sizing.

http://seekoutside.com/store/products/Titanium-Foil-.html

Daniel Fosse
(magillagorilla) - F

Locale: Southwest Ohio
Re: Ti Foil on 05/19/2011 10:00:14 MDT Print View

I'll check your site later. The page won't fully load from the network I'm on. I can't see the pictures. I see the Ti foil for $9.95 but the page does not tell what size the foil is or the thickness.

Andrew F
(andrew.f) - F - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Ti Foil on 05/19/2011 10:00:47 MDT Print View

Suluk46 sells Ti windscreens that are welded at the seam that might fit the bill for what you want to do-

http://www.suluk46.com/products%20%20-%20P9%20Ti%20Windscreen.html

Andrew

Daniel Fosse
(magillagorilla) - F

Locale: Southwest Ohio
finished on 05/20/2011 20:58:50 MDT Print View

I decided to do a buckle latch. Something was bothering me about messing with the paper clip. Just another item to worry about I guess. The latch works OK, it's not as tight as with my aluminium screens because the Ti is less springy.

I forgot to add. The punch holes for the buckle flap are there to stop the metal from sheering. One of my early aluminium screens suffered from sheering at these cuts. I made one for another pot with the punch holes and it shows no sign of tearing after 4 years of use.

Here is the latch open:

latch-open

closed:
closed

Back:
back

Side:
side

Front:
fromt

Edited by magillagorilla on 05/20/2011 21:05:40 MDT.

Kevin Beeden
(captain_paranoia) - F

Locale: UK
slot & tab joint on 05/23/2011 10:27:37 MDT Print View

I've used a simple slot & tab joint for a number of projects, which works quite well. Each end of the screen has a slot and a tab, so that one tab is folded outwards, and the other folded inwards. The joint is mated by overlapping the ends of the screen, and sliding the tabs into the slots. Once the tabs are folded, they are never folded again.

Here's an example:

caldera clone for MSR Titan

The angled slots & tabs make it easy to mate the two.

The structure on the left of the 'tail' of the joint overlap is a little triangular fold to reinforce the thin aluminium foil, which tends to bow out a little otherwise.

ps. I've been thinking of adding punched holes to stop crack propagation at the tips of the V-slots in the Flissure joint of my two-piece cone generator (above is a single-piece cone), but not got around to trying it yet... So far, the simple V-slots are holding up, but I suspect it's only a matter of time before they start to split.

Edited by captain_paranoia on 05/23/2011 10:49:59 MDT.

Daniel Fosse
(magillagorilla) - F

Locale: Southwest Ohio
Re: slot & tab joint on 05/23/2011 14:46:48 MDT Print View

Nice cone. Thanks for sharing. I don't really get the latch by looking at the picture. Your joint looks a little more sturdy but it kinda has to be to hold up the pot.

I made a cone from aluminium flashing for the SP600 and it works very well. Cones are great, I almost pulled the trigger on an Trail Designs Ti cone (still might for my sp900). The thing I don't like is the pack realistate the cone uses. I just wanted a simple screen that would fit in the pot. My pack is pretty small. Aluminium works well and is actually lighter, but it can crack and does not do well in a wood fire.

Colin Krusor
(ckrusor)

Locale: Northwest US
titanium foil on 05/23/2011 21:01:51 MDT Print View

I've found that a paper punch works beautifully with titanium foil if it has a sharp, saddle-shaped cutting head. The clearance between the cutting head and the die is very small (much smaller than any sheet metal punch I've seen). The holes are much cleaner than a sheet metal punch in thin or soft (CP grade) Ti foil.

It is true that the depth of the punch can be a problem. I have a stove project that has stagnated because I can't find a good, tight clearance punch that can reach beyond about an inch from the edge of the foil.

Kevin (Kevin Timm), how thick is your foil and what alloy is it? The SeekOutside website just says that the thickness is "0.05". I assume that is a typo and you meant 0.005 inches, or else you just left off the units and it means 0.05mm (0.002 inches). It also doesn't say whether it's CP2 (very soft), CP4 (moderately soft), 6Al4V (hard), or 15-3-3-3 (very hard and brittle). These are important details to anyone who would actually buy it.

Edited by ckrusor on 05/24/2011 17:25:20 MDT.

Kevin Beeden
(captain_paranoia) - F

Locale: UK
re: slot & tab joint on 05/24/2011 11:13:18 MDT Print View

> I don't really get the latch by looking at the picture.

Imagine a simple, cylindrical windscreen, made from a rectangle of foil.

At one end (end 1), cut a slot at the top, close to the end, and cut a tab at the bottom, at the same position (using two V-cuts, one at each end of the tab). Fold the tab towards the 'inside' of the screen.

At the other end (end 2), cut a slot at the bottom, close to the end, and cut a tab at the top, at the same position (using two V-cuts, one at each end of the tab). Fold the tab towards the 'outside' of the screen.

Now overlap the ends of the screen, so that end 1 is outside and above end 2, and slots and tabs are aligned. Slide the ends together, removing the vertical soffset, and mating each tab with the slot in the opposite end. Lifting the tips of the tabs a little helps the joints slide easily into each other. I can do this with one hand (when showing off...) Having the upper tab outside the screen means that it's protected from the flame, which might otherwise melt or soften aluminium foils.

> Your joint looks a little more sturdy but it kinda has to be to hold up the pot.

Yes; in a cone, the joint must stop the cone unwrapping when the pan is placed in it (although the rolled lip of the pan also helps a lot here).

> The thing I don't like is the pack real estate the cone uses.

The two-part, horizontally-split, Flissure variant usually allows the cone to fit entirely inside your cookpot*, so it takes up no additional room inside your pack.

* depending on the form factor of the pot; shallow, wide pans may not allow this.

Kevin Beeden
(captain_paranoia) - F

Locale: UK
re: foil thickness on 05/24/2011 11:20:31 MDT Print View

Colin,

You had me confused for a moment; 'SeekOutdoors?', I thought. Then noticed 'the other Kevin' further up the thread...

I've used 0.15mm-ish Al foil, and have managed to make a Flissure clone from 0.002" Ti foil (alloy unknown). I've yet to punch holes in the latter, but it supports the pot perfectly well. The only issue is that Ti, being less ductile that Al, doesn't retain any 'pre-curve', so the handle opening can tend to bow away from the pot, and needs to the tucked under the rolled lip of the pot. It does mean that Ti can be rolled much tighter than Al, without any damage.

BTW, be careful if you decide to see how tiny slivers of Ti foil react to being heated; I found they would ignite in a cigarette lighter flame, and burn with a very intense white light. On further reading, I see that this would also be giving off significant amounts of UV.

Reassuringly, the Ti self-extinguished when the burn reached foil about 0.5mm wide... Presumably because the foil was then able to conduct away enough heat to quench the flame.

Edited by captain_paranoia on 05/24/2011 11:21:37 MDT.