Can you cook pasta & rice on a Caldera Cone without scorching the food to the bottom of your pot? A lot of my meals are close to instant but require 5-6 minutes of additional cooking after bringing to a boil. I use a cozy which cuts this time down from 8-10 minutes that it would usually take. I don't mind stirring it a little during that 5-6 minute period.

I know you can make a simmer ring, but it seems like most of the designs aren't that elegant and there's some chance of burning yourself putting it on. I would rather just add a little bit of extra fuel and let it burn for a few minutes longer.

Any comments / experience about doing this?

Andrew

Which fuel are you using?

Let me make an example with Esbit. Let's say that you light a full cube of Esbit, put your water pot on to boil, and several minutes later it is boiling. You could lift off the pot, light another quarter-cube down in there, then put the boiling pot back on with dry food added. That should boil slower, but it still uses fuel. Same principle with alcohol. Wood is going to be a little trickier, but still possible. You're going to have to practice.

--B.G.--

I was thinking about alcohol fuel. For wood, it's easy enough to plan out how much wood you add to lower the heat later on in the boil. For some alcohol stoves, it works out similarly - my cat can stove is the hottest for the first 5-6 minutes, then cools down as the fuel level drops and has a nice simmer for 10 minutes or so. Unfortunately a lot of the heat is wasted since I'm using an MSR 0.85L kettle which is pretty narrow and I end up needing way too much fuel for the whole process - thus the interest in the Caldera cone system.

Andrew

I think you are saying that your kettle has a narrow bottom, so it is slightly inefficient for boiling. I have the same rig.

--B.G.--

If you're using ti pots or kettles then yes, you'll have hot spots. Non-stick or anodized aluminum will spread teh heat much better.

Too I know that ESBIT concentrates its heat more than wood or alcohol.

Eric, spreading the heat is not the issue here.

Some pots have a wider bottom, and they seem to be better at absorbing flame heat.

Spreading the heat is relevant if you are trying to cook something subtle.

--B.G.--

I am not too worried about hot spots. I am more interested in hearing what the total heat output is like. If I left my Pocket Rocket on full blast, I would have a charred mass of pasta stuck to the bottom of my pot no matter how fast I stirred. But in contrast, my cat can stove never brings water much above a slow boil. If that's the case with the Caldera Cone, then I should be able to just add 5-10 extra mL of fuel when I am going to cook pasta or rice and let it burn for a few minutes longer.

Any Caldera cone alcohol users out there have some first-hand experience?

Andrew

I only boil water for instant stuff, so I don't really cook much.

It sounds like you want to use a Caldera Cone with the 12-10 alcohol burner. I find it to be a little hotter and faster than the simple alcohol burners, plus it holds more than a minimum of alcohol, so you should be able to burn it until all is cooked.

--B.G.--

I use a coated Evernew 0.9L with a Ti-Tri Sidewinder and previously with the plain Al Caldera Cone, cooking for two with the 10-12 alcohol stove. I mostly do FBC, but I have "cooked" in the pot a few times. It's pretty easy to scortch food to the pot, even with stirring - if you stir thick food around the edges it's quite possible to scortch the middle. A few tricks you can try:

> If you carry the Ti floor TD sells for wood burning it makes a nice simmer plate
> Hold the pot just above the cone so it barely simmers - not really a good solution for more than a couple of minutes.
> Cut a ring from a soda can to make the stove simmer (I want to try this)
> If you have a Ti version, try a very small wood fire
> I think Rand suggested using Esbit with the gram cracker, but putting the cube under the GC to further reduce the surfaces available for combustion

This is an issue I'm still experimenting with, as I'd like to reduce my plastic waste and also want to do some steam baking. Hopefully others will chime in.

In just my own experience, of all types of stoves, woodstoves may be the easiest for cooking foods that are to be brought to a boil and then simmered. It takes getting to know your stove, but once you have practiced, every burn in your stove can boil water and then simmer or bake. I use my stoves for rice, breads, scrambled eggs, desserts and many other foods that require delicate cooking.
I have never used a caldera cone, but it should work just as well as a Firemug. After the initial fire has burned nearly out, you have a good 15 mins of low heat without adding any fuel. If you need a longer bake like some pizzas or for a large batch of dried rice, add a twig or two every 5 minutes or so.
Of course YMMV but I here in the heavily wooded east I rarely even carry an alcohol stove anymore.
boil:


bake or simmer:


eat!

I associate scorching with two things, 1)heat intensity and, 2)heat concentration--the same things you alluded to in your example of the pocket rocket used at full-blast. The Caldera Cone's utility is primarily due to it's increase in efficiency by limiting the chimney effect and retaining heat and secondarily to increasing even heat distribution. IMO, I don't see the degree of heat distribution provided by the cone to be enough to buffer a concentrated heat source.

If you are willing to change your heat source than the stoves made by Packafeather (http://packafeather.com/index.html) are a good choice. Both models, the Featherlite and XL, have "throttles"/air intake controls that allow you to simmer (without fear of burning your fingers!) and thus avoid scorching. The XL is specifically designed for smaller-based pots to decrease loss of heat up the sides of the pots. They also come with snuffer caps and a simple yet clever "straw" (can't belive I didn't think of this) that allows you to recover unspent fuel--I've never been a fan of the precise measureing required to avoid fuel waste with alcohol stoves.

@Brent: I'm interested in your windscreen/pot-support design. The tapering--looks like a clever piece of engineering.

"After the initial fire has burned nearly out, you have a good 15 mins of low heat without adding any fuel."

I recently attempted to do a cooking experiment involving a single pot meal requiring some simmering (curried red lentils and quinoa) using Sidewinder TiTri with the Inferno insert for the Evernew 0.9L pot. The best simmer was after the fire had died down - the heat from the embers was just right. Had to be careful when adding twigs to not stoke it too much otherwise it would start to boil over.

Doug, I dehydrate my cooked quinoa in advance. That way, on the trail, all it takes is to toss a little hot water on it and it is ready to eat.

--B.G.--

If I had a dehydrator I might do the same. But I'm also sort of interested in seeing what is possible to do with the gear beyond the simplest use (boiling water for rehydrating).

Andrew,

The Caldera Systems are really good at boiling water. Very efficient, very wind resistant, and very stable. The cone and the 12-10 stove they provide are engineered for each other. The 12-10 is designed to work in a hot low oxygen environment like inside the cone. Other stoves may work, too, but they generally suffer in my experience. I am unaware of a simmer set up for the Caldera system, but no doubt you could rig one. Adding extra alcohol to the 12-10 will just make it keep a rolling boil longer. If you bring your meal to a boil and stir for a minute or two then shut down and cozy cook your meal for the remainder that would likely work.

-Mark

Edited by markhurd on 04/30/2011 20:01:53 MDT.

I too like to cook. I tried to hold the pot higher above the flame.this is a pain. Then I tried to put a rock on top of the 12-10 stove they give you with the cone.this works ok but I burned myself and you need to let some fire through the hole.can be tricky with the flame still coming out. The simmer ring fixed that. So easy to make and very safe if built correctly,in my opinion. Works very well and slowly boils pasta or rice. I put two handles on my simmer ring out of aluminum tape.

"I put two handles on my simmer ring out of aluminum tape."

Can you control the simmer ring while it is within the cone?

--B.G.--

After the water has come to a boil I take the pot off the cone and the cone off the stove and while it is still burning I carefully slip the simmer ring over the stove.the key is to make the ring not too tight so it slides over the stove easily.I put two holes in the ring that are opposite each other that line up with the holes in the stove. This essentially slows down the flame so instead of being a six inch tall flame it is now a two inch flame. It does not like to light very well if you try to light a cold stove with the simmer ring on to start with.

Wouldn't it be neat if you could apply and control the simmer ring without taking the cone off?

--B.G.--