"You either adapt or you get meteored. Your choice."

Not necessarily. I'm all for choice and options. I don't see "progress" as either/or. Probably like most of us here, I simply pick what works for me.

"Do what I did with my kids. No cell phones, no video games, use a computer to teach... and monitor its use. They can walk to school, they don't need a car or bus. It only takes an hour to walk 3 miles. Encourage or make your kids go outside and play. They do not need to join a team to play soccer or baseball. Teach your kids to go outside and be free. Go outside with them. Be a parent. Grow a garden, raise some chickens or rabbits to teach your children about life. Don't let electronics and teachers provide moral values and ethics to your children, that is your job. It all starts at home."

Nick, if I am not mistaken, you kids are in College, which means that today's gadgets were not really an issue when they were little.
I have not had a TV since before my daughter was born; and we have lived in the woods with plenty of animals her whole life. However, a cell phone has almost become a necessity, since there are no buses where we live, and we need to coordinate pick up times and all that. Other gadgets....yeah, they are a bit much ...

Social networks? I'd say that BPL is awfully close to being a social network, and how much time we would save if we weren't on here...


I do find it rather sad how much interaction with no face contact we have.
Personally, I don't really do anything social; I am either at work or at home working outside or inside. No clubs, movies, restaurants, parties......most of my social life has to do with backpacking, hiking and teaching crafts to both kids and grownups. That's when I get out and do something other than work. That's when I am actually comfortable in a group. Just hanging out and talking, with more than one person at a time, is a bit awkward for me. BPL has become a bit of a community for me.



Edited:
Development and availability of many of today's "gadgets" have followed an exponential growth curve. Turning 18 in 2003 means that one's childhood was free of Facebook ( 2004), Ipod Touch (2007) , Android (2005) and all other mobile web devices.
Todays parents have some similar and some different challenges than parents in the past.

Edited by Kat_P on 04/22/2011 17:10:29 MDT.

Isn't picking what works best for you adapting?

I'm angry because we've completely switched over to those horseless carriages

I think we should make children ride horses for their first few years so they know how that is.

I think we should make people read paper books for the first few years - never mind, that's what the younger people on this site will be saying in 20 years

Back to the original post, that is kind of weird that the place was silent

Katharina,

My kids graduated from high school in 2003 and 2005, so yes they grew up in an era when all of these things were widely used. To be honest, they were not really interested in a lot of it, they were too busy.

There is nothing wrong with TV or clubs, or other social activities. We just need to balance our lives. I am not one to participate in groups or socialize a lot. But I do make friends, just they are not a big part of my life, except for my best friend who happens to be my wife.

I am not against cell phones either. I have one and use it a lot, but I use it the way I want to use it. I know how to use all the applications, just don't feel the need. And my cell phone syncs with my computer... not easy to make the iPhone do what I need it to do with a PC, but I have figured out what I need to do with it to make life easier for me.

I agree, BPL is a social network. I only look at two message boards, this one and one for tent trailers. They fulfill my needs. And I can live without them too... I did for most of my life.

Craig's description of the coffee house made me think about the fitting title of a recently published book about social networks. Alone Together. I haven't read it, but it sounds like something worthy of putting through the wringer of cartesian doubt.

Technology doesn't do anything. People do things. Technology allows for people do things more effectively. No matter whether it is good or bad and one person's bad is another person's good. Some of the best lessons I've learned have come from painful times, and many bad habits have come from good times.

Edited by akajut on 04/22/2011 15:30:07 MDT.

Corey,

No offense on your statements. We come from different generations. And in a sense I am a dinosaur :)

I am not anti-technology. Actually it is just the opposite. In my job I develop software applications, mostly VBA applications. I also do a lot of Instructional Design work which is computer heavy. Often I am asked to crunch numbers for internal and external customers. I manage a remote field force, which means we do not work in an office. I telecommute 100% of the time. My office is in Michigan and I work in a home office in California, if I am not traveling with my employees or working with clients. All of this means I am "wired" to the world. I need a smart phone and other mobile devices to do my job efficiently. And this technology has allowed be to expand the breadth of my skills across several disciplines... it is unique in my company and has provided job security and good pay. Where many people are dispatched to a slim silo of job functions, I am able to do many things, and do them well. It is not because I am smart, I have learned to leverage and maximize technology to my advantage.

But I have not lost sight of the need to communicate with people. My team is the best trained, and my clients are the highest performers. I attribute this to one-on-one, face-to-face communication. I do not "talk" to people, I listen to them. I see their facial expressions, their posture, and the inflection in their voice. I teach, train, and develop them to their strengths and interests. These are the interpersonal skills that we can use in any and all aspects of our lives. Too many people have allowed technology to replace interpersonal communication. When I train people to use a new software application, how to manage people, how to sell, or how to take care of customers; I chit-chat with them and listen. They tell me about their lives, their hobbies, their goals, their struggles, and themselves. Then I use metaphors based on what is important to them, to gain trust and interest in the day’s ultimate training goal. They retain more, see what’s in it for them, and learn quicker. All of this is not about the technology, but about people.

Technology has allowed me to do more work in less time than many people. When others need to work overtime to get their job done, I can knock off early. And when work is over, it is my time and I put the technology aside. I walk. I look at clouds. I watch ants or bugs. I read a book. I hang out and talk to my wife. On weekends and in the evening I turn my phone off. It has never seen in inside of a backpack. If I go into a coffee shop, I do not have to work… I have already done my work. Today most people who need technology in their jobs work more; I work less. On weekends managers in my company are expected to be available by phone or email; except me. They know I am out somewhere in the wilderness without access. But they usually don't need to contact me anyway, because I do good work, and my direct reports work well without any supervision. I am the only manager who never, ever is available when on vacation. And when I get back to work, I have zero problems... my team knows what they need to do, how to do it well, and I have developed key people to do my job when I am away. Technology combined with good communication has allowed this to happen. This is the role of technology I see in our lives... make life better and easier, and not an end unto itself.

I do not need to keep in contact with the hundreds of people I went to high school and college with. I have moved on to other things, different interests, and new friends. I do not stay in the past, I move forward. I let the technology assist in my growth, not shackle me to itself. And when the power goes out, I can still work with paper, pen, and a slide rule. They are not preferable, but allow me to continue. Others cannot function until the power is restored. A programmer does not need a computer to write code, and a composer does not need an orchestra to write music. It is in their head. Eventually they need to apply the code or music to their respective technology.

Education does not need to be wrote memory. I am lazy, and never bothered to learn all those mathematical equations. I remember being deducted in a class because I did not memorize the quadratic equation; I derived the equation on the test and then answered the question. When the teacher asked why I did not memorize it, I told her it was more important to me to play basketball with my friends than sit at home memorizing a bunch of stuff I would probably forget in a short time. We need to teach kids how to multiply, divide, etc. on paper. They have to think more. The technology comes later. Same goes with writing. Today businesses shut down when the electricity goes out. Others can continue when employees can write and calculate without power. I have seen car dealerships close down for the day when the computers go down; others hand write documents, calculate on paper and get the job done.

In my job I get more work done, work less, and spend more of my leisure time pursuing my interests, which are time with my wife, camping and hiking. Go back and look at all my posts… except for a few weekends, I never post on weekends… we are out hiking or camping, without access to technology at all. We live in harmony with technology on our terms. Each year I spend at least 100 nights outdoors backpacking or in my tent trailer with my wife. And I work full time. Many weeks I can get all my work (and more) done in 3 or 4 days, and take the rest of the week off. I measure myself in what I accomplish, not how many hours I work. Technology has allowed me to do this; it has made my life better.

I am 60 and have an iPhone (replaced my BlackBerry), iPod, and several laptops. I now often read on a Kindle. I have a home network that integrates audio/visual equipment with my computers. I can stream movies to my TV. My home is automated. I can control appliances, lighting, fireplace, and alarm with my phone, computer, or remote control units. But I am not absorbed in the technology… it is just there when we want it; we do not need it. We would rather play Scrabble and talk or just turn everything off. I have always been an early adapter. PDAs? I used an Apple Newton to enhance my job a long time ago… research that little gem. Before that I used some Sharp devices... all synchronized with my computer. Decades ago I was running business on a Commodore 64, then an Apple II, and moved on with each generation of new computer. In those days we had to teach ourselves, no computer classes in school or specialized business software. We started by building our own programs. Then used Microsoft MultiPlan (spreadsheet) on the Commodore. On the Apple II it was VisiCalc. On the Apple Lisa it was 3 Easy Pieces. Then PC-based Word Perfect, dBase, and Lotus 123, and who cannot forget the flat file Q&A database program. DOS, Windows 1.0, 3.1, and those that came afterward.

Both of my kids are recent college graduates, and did very well in college. When it comes to technology problems, they call me, not visa versa.

So what does all this mean? I am not bragging; technology and living need to be balanced. Technology is not living, it is a means to an end; a good well balanced and happy life. To me technology is just a tool, like a hammer or a torque wrench. When the job is done, I put them back into my toolbox. The same goes with technology. I only use technology when appropriate. I do not define my life by it.

I think we need to talk to each other more... one-on-one. We have been doing it for thousands of years. If we let it, technology will de-humanize us.

Anyway, that is my story and I am going to stick with it.

I stand by everything in my original post :)

I like the quiet coffee shops. I do not have an office and I need to work on my computer. I could work at home, but that is 30 minutes away from my territory. Coffee shops offer a space for me to have a cup, work for a few hours and then go off to help my Reps. I don't mind the non socialization

"And in a sense I am a dinosaur :)"

Ah, perhaps, but the rest of your post shows why I'd rather be a dinosaur than an amoeba......

+1 to Nick. Afterall, dinosaurs are freakin' sweet.

I guess the difference is that I gain enjoyment out of tinkering with my gizmos and gadgets. It's not as wonderful as going out backpacking or climbing every weekend, but it's something. Obviously we're all here because have a great admiration for the great outdoors. But not all of us live in such a wonderful part of the world for the sport :)

Thankfully, my job prevents most of it from following around. My smartphone is for personal use. I do have to VPN to get some extra work done throughout the week as I have a special class I'm taking at my company that will result in me receiving my masters. Other than that, work is gone when I walk out the door. And this weekend I plan on backpacking (but not if the thunderstorms swing south--several inches of rain expected!!)

>> Technology doesn't do anything. People do things.

For now. However after we reach the singularity where the machines are able to create machines, people will no longer run the show. That concept might make a good movie.

http://www.orbooks.com/our-books/program/ - Haven't read it myself yet, but looks interesting.

"I guess the difference is that I gain enjoyment out of tinkering with my gizmos and gadgets."

Oh, don't get me wrong, I love technology and tinkering. My garage is really a complete machine shop and master technician's service bay. When my son was little we built a computer together, so he helped build his own computer... only I limited what he could use it for and how much. A few years ago my wife and I gutted a tent trailer and completely re-modeled it from scratch. My current tent trailer has been highly modified with solar and all kinds of modern electronics. Recently our 5 disc DVD-CD player broke. They are pretty cheap to replace, but I disassembled it and fixed it, knowing little about how they work, but I figured it out. In my garage is a 1977 Honda CB750K motorcycle that I have completed disassembled and am restoring. I loved the TV show Tool Time; "more power, arh, arh, arh!"

I love technology, and consider man's ability to develop it to be one, if not his highest achievement. But we must not lose sight of what we really are, we are social creatures... and we seem to be losing that basic attribute.

I have two other hobbies I did not mention. Stamp collecting (been doing this for over 50 years) and astronomy. I have a couple scopes, and I really enjoy my computer controlled, motor driven NextStar 8. Pretty high tech from where I started. Technology has allowed me to afford and enjoy hobbies that were once the realm of the privileged, and to enjoy them at a fairly sophisticated level.



I use a computer to build my own stamp albums. I use the Internet to research every stamp and add a description. Often one stamp will lead me to read several books about the subject. And what is really cool, technology allows me to scan and share. Over the past few years I have completed most of years from 1892 - 1990 in my US Commemorative albums, it will take a few more to get it up to date. Here are the commemorative stamps that were printed the year I was born. Just thought I would like to share, and I know Ben will probably get a kick out of them, since he is a philatelist.

For now. However after we reach the singularity where the machines are able to create machines, people will no longer run the show. That concept might make a good movie.

-----------------------

Almost got there with I, Robot. Good flick, IMO.

Nick - the photo looks a bit like you have been taken hostage by your machines:) Seriously though I wish I knew someone who was into astronomy (you are full of surprises - maybe an other hobbies thread would be interesting), as I would love to do some star gazing. The iron chairs are beautiful.

There are a lot of interesting things people here do. I had ignored the "Do you raise chickens" thread, but after checking it out a few days ago, I am waiting for April 30th :)

If you are interested in stargazing, check with a local college if one is nearby. They usually have stargazing parties open to the public.

Sharing the things we do online can be fascinating and fun. But face-to-face is much better. Craig and I met up through BPL, and although we often debate here, we can spend time together and focus only on our common interests and leave the rest behind.

It is just such a shame that people don't talk to each other like they once did. Try walking down the street and greet everyone you walk by, many will surprise you with a friendly hello and a big smile. Others will give you the evil eye. I just think that when a bunch of strangers are in a place like Starbucks, it is cool when there is a lot of conversation going on, not little isolated worlds. I do notice that coffee shops near college campuses have a lot of laptops out, but the kids are talking and enjoying themselves.

I didn't know you were into astronomy Nick; I took some astrophysics and astronomy in college and still like reading on the subject. I've yet to purchase a good telescope though...

So I'm cordially inviting myself on a stargazing camping trip with you in the near future.



...Now I can also pick your brain:
Can you think of a lightweight telescope that would be decent to haul into the High Sierra?
I've always wanted something light/compact enough to go backpacking (likely a simply refractor?). I've always entertained using one at 13,000+ feet on a clear night/new moon.

Edited by xnomanx on 04/22/2011 18:01:18 MDT.

Craig,

Good news is that some of the best skies for observation in Southern Calif, happen to be in Joshua Tree, especially at the southern part of the park. Local astronomy clubs often camp out at Cottonwood Campground, which tends to be the quietest campground in the park, and one of the few with water and toilets. This campground is actually kind of world known for good sky gazing, and people travel from other states to go here in the winter. So... even a family trip would be good. But the desert is warming up and the optimal winter viewing just ended. Also, much less wind in the southern section, and we normally get very little wind at Cottonwood. But lets plan something. Also, day hikes before dark would be in order :) and there are a couple trails/hikes that are ideal for kids. We are self contained and even have a 2nd King size bunk and could accommodate you or your family, unless you prefer to tent it. Last year we camped there with Jim W and his family. They have an A-frame pop-up camper and camped next to us.

Before one buys a scope, what their goal in seeing is paramount, and I recommend they actually view the sky with a scope they are interested in before purchasing... and of course aperture is king, the bigger the better. And with smaller scopes, transporting and not knocking the mirror out of alignment is a consideration. Given that, I would probably be more inclined to explore "astro" binoculars. Less likely to get damaged in the pack, and can be used for other activities. Binoculars are much easy to use, the image is not reversed, and a tripod is not required. But I have never used any. For example a Pentax PCF WP II 20x60 weighs 45 oz and costs under $250. A Celestron SkyMaster 25-125x80 Zoom Binoculars cost under $150 and weighs 76 oz. Don't know anything about either, just did a quick Google search.

It would be cool to look for meteors or comets.

Try walking down the street and greet everyone you walk by, many will surprise you with a friendly hello and a big smile.

I once did a month long experiment of talking to people in lifts. Most people were a little surprised, but soon became friendly.