"The author cannot change how the world receives the work and generally winds up looking foolish."

I guess you are right about that :)

They do reflect something about pop culture that is both funny and a little sad

And while a few are entertaining reads, none would make my own top 100 list

"They do reflect something about pop culture that is both funny and a little sad"

I know. Silly me. 2.1 billion Christians and 1.5 billion followers of Islam (not to mention many other religions) are influenced by the Bible... not sure whether that is sad or funny. Harper Lee's book was probably too heavy reading for me as a child and must have twisted my mind regarding my views on racism and injustice. And why on earth did I enjoy Bilbo and Gandalf... immaturity I guess. Do I really care about the impact of the Civil War on the South and the Southern way of life, which was changed forever? I am sure Dale Carnegie had no clue about human nature. We can just dismiss Frankl, since Freud must have been 100% right; and did Auschwitz even happen? - not according to Ahmadinejad.

And why isn't the Complete Walker on the list?

The number of books on the list that inherently contradict each other while also offering fairly dogmatic and/or didactic directions for how to live life--several in particular espouse ideologies in direct conflict with those of Rand. The Bible is always a little funny and sad for me--the root of faith for so many that also winds up as the basis of so much pain and strife. Lord of the Rings is the only title on there that might make my top 100, and I found it's placement there--as the only truly playful fantasy on the list--rather amusing. Gone With the Wind has always seemed disturbing to me in it's yearning apologetics for the pre-war south. I had to teach corporate courses using Carnegie's stuff, and the bad feeling it left in my stomach (can you say self congratulatory schmaltz) remains in my gut today. I have and have read Frankl's book and most of what Freud wrote--there is some good stuff in there, but I find other theorists and practitioners more interesting and valuable, particularly Jung and Korzybski, as well as a number of contemporary thinkers working in Reader Response, Post Modernism, and Narrative Therapy. Harper's book frankly surprised me, but it's subtle racism is of the Driving Miss Daisy variety and so is also a bit sad.

Edited by cbert on 04/18/2011 18:11:01 MDT.

"The number of books on the list that inherently contradict each other while also offering fairly dogmatic and/or didactic directions for how to live life--several in particular espouse ideologies in direct conflict with those of Rand."

Ah, but if one agrees or disagrees with any other, they need to be knowledgeable about the anti-thesis, conflicting/supporting thinking. Sort of like if you believe in the Christian god, then you need to know about Satan and acknowledge his existence.

If one were adopt Rand's philosophy, then one should probably study those that influenced her; both positively and negatively... that would require a rather large library. The Libertarians, Republicans, and Tea Party supporters, just grab what sounds convenient at the moment.

Regarding the list:

Interesting how the Bible is followed by the very anti-religious Ayn Rand. Of course both are joined by Lord of the Rings and Gone with the Wind in the top 6 influential books, ... so hobbits a leading influence for some? - edited for brevity

Edited by hknewman on 04/18/2011 23:06:32 MDT.

Thanks Cary and Nick et al

Very good discussion however after reading through the thread my old mind has grown very tired so I will sleep well tonight : )

I can't even think of a smartassish reply. Nite-t-nite.





I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know if you know what I mean
Philosophy is the talk on a cereal box
Religion is a smile on a dog

would certainly be in my top 100

"I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know if you know what I mean
Philosophy is the talk on a cereal box
Religion is a smile on a dog"

Ah, I haven't listened to Edie in a long time. Methinks it's time to fire up iTunes.....

Thank spagetti monster for women who love short men

"Thank spagetti monster for women who love short men"

+1 - any way you want to interpret it.....

For those who don't know and for those whose memories fail them:

Who's: a contraction for 'who is'

Whose: the possessive of who

Now then, let's look at "who's contributions to literature..." If you un-contract this phrase (ie: 'who is contributions to literature') it just doesn't make sense. The same goes for "who's characters were larger than life". It just doesn't make sense when you apply the un-contraction test.

So if you are going to indulge in heavyweight lit crit you just got to get those apostrophes under control.

Edited by lushy on 04/18/2011 21:58:15 MDT.

Andrew,

It is just a message board, and I usually type while on conference calls. Just as in "lit crit"

I do not indulge in anything heavy, just check my gear list.

:)

But who's to say whose grammar mistakes are the result of lack of understanding and whose are merely typos? I know my text sometimes gets a bit tommyknockered by this dang iPad and its pesky auto correction of text (iPad beasty just swore I needed a contraction rather than a possessive for that last pronoun). And my beers sometimes speak loudly in my words (as now--Lagunitas Maximus insists on sharing the podium with me [burp]). I suspect in Nick's case it was mostly a matter of impatient retort, which seldom manifests with all aesthetic and (iPad just swore I meant "aesthetic nag," which I may have to find a use for now that it's come to my attention) linguistic filters fully employed, focused as it generally is on argumentative wit.

I think there is room for both grammatical and that which is less than so sorts of fun--I'd certainly hate to lose a discussion mate to apprehension over grammaticality :-)

Word.

but I find other theorists and practitioners more interesting and valuable, particularly Jung and Korzybski.

+1.

Andrew, couldn't of said it better myself. ; )




edited. Sheesh...I know how to spell "grammar", it was part of the joke..but thanks for the couple messages.

Edited by Kat_P on 04/19/2011 07:10:24 MDT.

The Hobbit Shrugged

One memorable moment in "The Hobbit Shrugged" occurs near the very end, when the economy has been rendered comatose by all the great economic minds in Washington. Finally, and out of desperation, the politicians come to the heroic hobbit Bilbo Baggins (who has resisted their assault on capitalism) and beg him to help them get the economy back on track. The discussion sounds much like what would happen today:

Baggins: "You want me to be Economic Dictator?"

Mr. Thompson: "Yes!"

"And you'll obey any order I give?"

"Implicitly!"

"Then start by abolishing all income taxes."

"Oh no!" screamed Mr. Thompson, leaping to his feet. "We couldn't do that . . . How would we pay government employees?"

"Fire your government employees."

"Oh, no!"

Intriguing discussion....
+1 George

HK.."Interesting how the Bible is followed by the very anti-religious Ayn Rand."

The list maker does say, "A large gap exists between the #1 and the rest of the list."
Wonder how big?

Beware of surveys. Even though I posted the survey results. That survey was done in 1991, and did not contain a wide cross section of respondents... it was targeted to the Book of the Month Club, and Library of Congress users... not the typical American. Also it asked for the most influential book, not a ranking of books by those surveyed.

Most Americans would probably say the Bible is the most influential book... it has the most impact on our society... even if you have never read it. Also, how many people have read the entire Bible?

What influences people to read a book? Often the NY Times Best Seller List, Oprah's recommendations, and required reading in school. Many schools have gravitated away from the "classics" and there are more current novels read, "because the classics are not relevant today" -- this statement of fact, was thrown at me by one of my children's teachers when I was frustrated with the curriculum that was influencing my kids, which required my intervention and supplemental reading at home to ensure they received a quality education.

Atlas Shrugged is influential, if you just look at the number of copies that have been sold every year since 1957.

Here is another list.

25 BOOKS THAT HAVE SHAPED READERS' LIVES
Library of Congress, Center for the Book

1. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, by Mark Twain
2. Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand
3. The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin
4. The Autobiography of Malcolm X
5. The Bible
6. The Catcher in the Rye, by J.D. Salinger
7. Charlotte's Web, by E.B. White
8. The Diary of a Young Girl, by Anne Frank
9. Don Quixote, by Miguel de Cervantes
10. Gone With the Wind, by Margaret Mitchell
11. Hiroshima, by John Hersey
12. How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie
13. I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, by Maya Angelou
14. Invisible Man, by Ralph Ellison
15. The Little Prince, by Antoine de Saint Exupery
16. Little Women, by Louisa May Alcott
17. The Lord of the Rings, by J.R.R. Tolkien
18. Roots, by Alex Haley
19. The Secret Garden, by Frances Hodgson Burnett
20. To Kill a Mockingbird, by Harper Lee
21. Treasure Island, by Robert Louis Stevenson
22. Walden, by Henry David Thoreau
23. War and Peace, by Leo Tolstoy
24. What Color is Your Parachute?, by Richard Nelson Bolles
25. The Wizard of Oz, by L. Frank Baum

P.S. The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged were not on my required reading list for my kids, although both were given copies as gifts when they were older. I don't know if they read them. Once they completed high school, as adults the content of their continuing education was up to them. I provided 1/2 of the cost of college if they wanted to continue, did not guide or influence them in their course of study, and fortunately both did graduate.