Not exactly food or nutrition -- but supplements anyway...

I notice that Wally World sells these a lot cheaper than at other stores -- even though the labels indicate comparable concentration/quantities of active ingredients.

For those of you who have tried the more expensive brands from GNC, etc. and also Wally World -- can you tell any difference in terms of effectiveness?

Benjamin, the other brands will lighten up your wallet more effectively.

--B.G.--

Some years back, the doctor suggested I take it. I did so faithfully until discovering the hard way (horrible rash, same as what I have gotten from iodine) that the stuff is derived from shellfish (get a magnifying glass and read the very fine print). I haven't taken any since, and have noticed no difference.

Because I can't take the stuff anyway, I didn't bookmark a fairly recent (in the past year) news article that at least one study has shown that G&C doesn't do much. It's out there somewhere if anyone wants to look for it.

My humble opinion is that there will be no noticeable difference between the different brands.

Ben,

My father has been happy w/the Wally World stuff. Side note: GNC's Triflex Sport worked wonders for me (knee) - so much so that I was hesitant to switch to the cheap stuff!

Todd



Edited to correct product name

Edited by funnymoney on 04/05/2011 19:32:10 MDT.

Todd:

For the sake of science, might you be willing to try Wally World for a month? :)

Kidding -- I'll wait a bit to see if anyone has switched and lived to tell -- otherwise, I might go for the Trisport. Thanks.

For joint health, I take pharmaceutical grade Fish Oil and a package of Knox Gelatine (unflavored, plain cooking powder form) daily. Glucosamine is nothing more than Shark Cartilage anyway, and there are plenty of medical studies showing Cow Cartilage to be beneficial as well. Cheaper too. I favor http://www.zonediet.com for my source of Fish Oil capsules and ordinary Knox Gelatine in the 30 package box (from amazon.com) for cartilage.

"I didn't bookmark a fairly recent (in the past year) news article that at least one study has shown that G&C doesn't do much."

I've been paying attention to this stuff for about ten years now. The last article that I read said that the problem is that its results are inconsistent from one patient to another. I've known some guys who had bad knees and then took the stuff, and they just swear by it, and you couldn't pry their hands off it. I've known others who had bad knees and either had a bad reaction to it or else absolutely no effect at all. This suggests that the root cause of bad knees can be from different things, and if you just happen to have the correct thing wrong, maybe it works good. There are too many things that can cause knee pain, however, and often it is difficult to sort them out.

--B.G.--

A few years back I had pain in my knee which might have been an RSI from bicycling, aggravated by downhills while hiking. The orthopedist said that it was a torn meniscus and the options were G&C supplements with some PT or orthoscopic surgery. So I opted for the first choice which was to take the supplements and spin on a bike, no load, for half an hour daily for a few months. This seemed to fix it, was able to go on long backpacks afterward with almost no pain. So maybe the important thing was the PT to circulate fluid in the joint. Worked for me. It's also possible that it was a coincidence and that it healed on its own...

My bad! Triflex Sport, not Trisport. Haven't taken it in awhile - knees feel good!

Edited by funnymoney on 04/05/2011 19:32:49 MDT.

It doesn't work for everyone and it is modestly expensive but my wife who had fibromyalgia has been pretty much totally cured by two things: The firmest mattress you can buy. We discovered this by accident after spending a great year in Beijing and the returning to have symptoms reappear on a futon.The mattress salesman alluded that all of his Asian customers complained that no mattress was firm enough. The second is Reparagen. My wife developed severe knee pains. This stopped it and we tried to replicate it generically -no dice. It continues to work about 5 years in . It returned her to backpacking. There is some science behind it too. Good luck, but this may help you fast track it. Some former Hockey Goalies said it brought them back from the graveyard.

Talk to your doctor about it. If you can find one to chat with that has sports expertise it will help. I have been told by my doc and PA that G&C works and it does seem to help me. I take way over normal dosage.

In 2006 I was on vacation in the Philippines. I was working out in a weight room and did a lrg exertcise on a machine that required me to lay on my back. I lifted too much weight and immediately began to feel some pain.

Over the next few days the pain in both knees increased and got to a quite uncomfortable level. I thought that I'd ruined my knees and, being in a 3rd world country, had no access to G/C.

As soon as I returned home two weeks later (with the same pain level) I began taking the max doses of C/G. Within five days I could feel relief and in three weeks the pain was almost gone. Finally, two months later there was no pain and it has never returned.

So, yes, I'm a "believer" in G/C. But now I feel, as stated above, ya gotta try different brands and see what works for you. EveryBODY is different.

BTW, I now take G/C regularly in minimum doses and carry it on backpacking trips. It has also helped me recover more quickly (according to my PT's experience) from extensive shoulder repair.

Edited by Danepacker on 04/10/2011 13:03:05 MDT.

FWIW, the Cochrane Library did a systematic review of the literature in 2009 of RCTs that compared Glucosamine (only) vs placebo. They found 25 trials that met their criteria.

I will give findings in standard mean difference (SMD) scores. The more negative the score, the more in favor of glucosamine, the more positive, the more it favors placebo. If it crosses 0, it is usually regarded as not statistically significant, or clinically significant.

Pain; glucosamine vs placebo: SMD = -0.47 (-0.72 to -0.23).

Lequesne score; glucoasamine vs placebo (an OA severity score): SMD of -0.47 (-0.82 to -0.12)

Glucosamine vs NSAIDs: SMD of -0.27 (-0.65 to 0.11) -- crosses 0.

There are several other findings in the study, most were about toxicity and others that weren't pertinent to this discussion. And most crossed 0.

FYI, the cochrane library is in the middle of a systematic review of chondroitin vs placebo.

I agree with others that it works for some and not for others. I speculate this is due to the individual metabolism of each person's ability to break down the compounds. This is huge area of study in medicine as some people respond to medicine better than others. Usually due to differences in metabolic enzymes. There are actually certain places that type your CYP enzymes before using general anesthesia to attempt to reduce prolonged anesthesia due to difference in enzyme isotypes.

Cheers,
Josh

So Josh, what is the significance of the -0.47 scores? It favors Glucosamine over the placebo, but by how much in the real world? What would -1.00 signify, for example?

Great question Buck, I'll try to answer it the best I can, but I am no statistician.

Cochrane uses the term SMD instead of "effect size", but it is the same, just called SMD due to other medical terminology that could be confused with effect size.

Effect size is a standardized difference between two measures. Here it would be (effect of Glucosamine-effect of placebo)/standard deviation.

Generally, many use >0.1 a small effect (aka probably not clinically significant)...>0.3 a moderate effect...and >0.5 a large effect (although some use 0.8).

So I would classify the above findings from Cochrane in the moderate effect. What this probably means is that for the vast majority of people it will help. Obviously by how much is subjective and that is what the Lequesne scores try to elucidate. The fact that both are right around the 0.5 mark says to me that the majority of patients would benefit from this treatment over placebo.

Now, when you throw in monetary considerations it becomes even more convoluted, as some may not think it does enough to justify the cost.

Hopefully that helps.

I have been told by (beware Brad Fisher this is a Tarheel plot) by many of my UNC pharmacy school grad friends (the only pharmacy school in NC but I think the Pie-Rats (ECU) may be getting a pharma school...... never mind for the rest of you non North Carolinians)

Anyway they tell me (and actually the first person This info came from was a Back Surgeon at DUKE..........shudder....

Anyway the story is that Cosamin DS has a patented sulfite or sulfate that increases the degree or rate of absorption of the glucosamine in the bloodstream so that therefore more of it makes it to the joints instead of just passing through the digestive tract.

Anyone know anything about this? Is all glucosamine condroitin created equal or is Cosamin DS better?

Im big on using these suppliments and also Msm I find the best deals at swansons and try to stock up at their sales.However I find their regular prices very good also. I find them to be very good quality expesially the ultra brand. This has made a huge difference in my life I would not be hiking anymore if I had not found it.

I'm a big fan of these supplements. They help me tremondously, but most, if not all of my pain is from the back breaking labor I have done all my life, the worst of which transmits through my wrists when pounding stakes and digging holes.

I first used something my dad had, I think it was Arthro-Servin, which help within a day or two. But it was serverly expensive. I've been taking Ostero Bo-Flex for years now, off and on. Seems to work within a week, and take it for 3-6 months. After that, my joints are ok for about the same amount of time. I'm almost done with a bottle of it, and am going to try Advocare's version, and see if there is any noticable difference.

Also, my wife has Outchscouth-slaader(sp?), which is in here right knee, and caused her extreme pain after walking more than 15 minutes at a time. The glucosamine and chondroitin seemd to help help a lot as well.

"Anyway the story is that Cosamin DS has a patented sulfite or sulfate that increases the degree or rate of absorption of the glucosamine in the bloodstream so that therefore more of it makes it to the joints instead of just passing through the digestive tract. "

Actually, it's all about the chondroitin. We sell one of the other products from Nutramax Labs, Dasuquin, in our clinic. The story we got from the Nutramax representative is that they have the patent in this country for making chondroitin as a low-molecular weight format that is more easily absorbed, and thus better utilized. Glucosamine and chondroitin work better together than either does separately. There do seem to be different forms of glucosamine, however, and some people will absorb one better vs. another, so sometimes it is worth trying a different supplement if one doesn't work. But, I've prescribed the Nutramax products for about 15 years, and have tried others in my clinic that didn't work as well. I also take their supplement for humans, and it does work. The other good thing (from my point of view) is that Nutramax labs is part of the National Animal Supplement Council. Supplements are unregulated, but this is a group of industry participants that are trying to police themselves and provide quality products. That's just a little bit of insurance that they are not just out to make a buck, but are trying to do a stand-up job.