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UL OR SUL MYOG switch (help meee!)
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nico brilmyer
(niconotori) - F
UL OR SUL MYOG switch (help meee!) on 03/20/2011 11:07:20 MDT Print View

I need help from all you amazing makers of gear to find the perfect UL or SUL shelter and/or quilt.

"I am still pretty new to all this.. my current set up is a Nemo Meta 2p and a WM antelope.
I like the Meta but even with maximum ventilation it is moist on mornings.. i feel it probably performs as well as a good tarptent, but it was $350 and tarptents as a general rule seem to be cheaper if purchased second hand etc... I would like to find a tarptent or any other UL shelter that fits 2 people because it seems the difference in weight between 1 and 2 people UL shelters is small. If the difference is a big one though ( 1.5 lb.+) then i will probably go with a 1 man.

I like the antelope, but it is too warm for me, so i figured on selling it for a 20 degree bag.. Then i figured i might as well try for a quilt as it also seems a viable sleeping option and saves weight."



If any of you know of someone, or happen to be that someone who can help me; please let me know =)





THANK YOU!!!!

-Nico

Edited by niconotori on 03/20/2011 11:10:40 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: UL OR SUL MYOG switch (help meee!) on 03/20/2011 11:20:42 MDT Print View

The Backpacking Light Stealth NANO Ultralight Backpacking Tarp is pretty good

You could make something like that in Cuben or silnylon

I currently use a silnylon version, only on the front I have a beak with a zipper to prevent rain from blowing in.

Zipper open:

tarp

nico brilmyer
(niconotori) - F
ok on 03/20/2011 14:15:51 MDT Print View

Hey Jerry thanks for your post! Did you make that following bpl's pattern or is it the bpl model in silnylon?


would it be cheaper to myog? $320 for a tarp seems kinda steep!
Thanks!

Edited by niconotori on 03/20/2011 15:04:40 MDT.

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: Tarp Ridgeline(s) on 03/20/2011 17:56:24 MDT Print View

Jerry,

I may have asked you this question once before but I can't find the thread again.

Is the main body of your tarp 4 pieces? In the photo I see what appears to be at least two ridgeline seams. I'm assuming that there is a third out of view on the far side of your tarp. Is this correct?

BTW What is the huge shillelagh under the tarp next to your bivy used for?

Party On,

Newton

nico brilmyer
(niconotori) - F
. on 03/21/2011 15:09:17 MDT Print View

In the mean time, any more suggestions anyone? Newton?

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: . on 03/21/2011 15:46:51 MDT Print View

Nico,

I use a silnylon tarp with a zippered beak that has dimensions similar to the Gossamer Gear Spinntwin tarp.

Silnylon tarp pitched with beak zipper closed

Silnylon tarp pitched with beak zipper open and beak rolled back


The bivy that I use in a MYOG version of the Meteor Bivy from Six Moon Designs.

Homemade Meteor Bivy LS full length

Detail of footbox

My top quilt is also MYOG using .9 ounce breathable ripstop and 3.7 ounce Climashield Combat insulation.

SUL Top Quilt 1

Do you sew?

Party On,

Newton

Chris Muthig
(cmuthig) - M

Locale: Georgia
MYOG on 03/21/2011 15:49:19 MDT Print View

Going with MYOG would be cheaper and a good option if you feel confident making the tarp. If you go with MYOG the original tarptent design can be purchased at thru-hiker with the materials for not too bad of a price. That comes with a two person or solo design. Another design I've been interested in for a while is the pyramid. MLD has the Duomid that weights in at 16oz for around $200. Anything along this line should help you drop weight and are a bit easier on your wallet I think.

nico brilmyer
(niconotori) - F
. on 03/21/2011 16:06:43 MDT Print View

newton- I can sew OK, i am trying to develope that skill currently. Also, do you use the bivy and the tarp together all the time?



Chirs: Thanks for the advice! I was thinking about the Duo... I am unsure of my ability to make my shelter atm. I've made a myog bag thus far that was ok, i am trying to hone my craft before i make something like a shelter.

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: . on 03/21/2011 17:05:58 MDT Print View

Nico,

"Also, do you use the bivy and the tarp together all the time?"

98% of time yes. I've used the bivy by itself in shelters on some occasions.

If I were to be truly daring and confident in dry weather I could use the bivy alone and outside under the stars.

Party On,

Newton

Terry Trimble
(socal-nomad) - F

Locale: North San Diego county
buying verse MYOG gear on 03/21/2011 17:52:46 MDT Print View

Nico,
If you know how to sew on sewing machine make some of your own stuff like stuff sacks and quilt with cheaper fabric to see if you like it. If not purchased stuff is a great deal also and you get quality built gear.
I own a Oware cat bird tarp because cantnary tarp making is over my head and people on this board think Dave makes some of the best tarps and does not cost a fortune.
http://www.owareusa.com/

I needed a new synthetic quilt this year but I did the math and with golite's 40% precent off sale code "BSF10".
I cant make 40 degree synthetic quilt with singled construction for $72.00 I also bought a 25 degree quilt for winter at 40 % off.I was surprised at the construction and the warmth better than I did when I made my own non shingle construction flat synthetic insulation quilts like most of make on this board.

Don't get me wrong I like making simple ultralight backpacks we see here because it fun for me and intrigues me I am able to make them decent have been doing it for along time . When ever people post ideas here it great learning from them and their techniques.


Terry













5

nico brilmyer
(niconotori) - F
. on 03/21/2011 19:24:09 MDT Print View

Newton: Is this what most people do with their tarps? use bivies under them?




Terry: thanks! I actually forgot i know a guy who can get reallllly good deals on golite products. To that end i am eyeing up the ultralight 3 season and 1 seasons...
Dave's stuff looks great too. I was hoping for maybe a cuben shelter but it seems he doesnt make the cat tarp in it, and the alphamid is about $500 in cuben(!!) HIs flat tarp seems to resemble zpacks hexamid- or am i just too much of a newby to tell the difference? =)


Thanks to everyone so far!! You all have been a huge help!


keep 'em comin! =)

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: What most people do with their tarps on 03/21/2011 20:32:43 MDT Print View

"Is this what most people do with their tarps? use bivies under them?"

It depends on the weather and the amount of bugs and/or mice in the area.

Many hikers forgo the bivy in the bug free time of year. Some bivys are for protection from the elements and actually get used without a tarp.

Party On,

Newton

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
just as good,but lighter 2 P shelter on 03/22/2011 19:04:30 MDT Print View

Nico,
Understand that you are using a single-wall 2P tent weighing over 3# packed that saves some weight by using trekking poles for support, and due to excellent ventilation, manages condensation well for a single wall. But sounds like maybe you want something lighter without giving up the benefits of the tent.

If you go to tarps, as suggested here, things will be quite different. Maybe you should rent or borrow a tarp before investing.

If I were you, and wanted what it sounds like you want, I would call Henry and inquire if a 2P version of the Moment is in the offing and worth waiting for.
It would probably have a second door on the other side, like the Scarp, but would have the tautness, stability, simplicity and light single-wall weight of the Moment, substantially lighter than the Nemo. And condensation would be less of an issue due to the net walls both front and back.

Good luck.

nico brilmyer
(niconotori) - F
. on 03/23/2011 10:35:24 MDT Print View

Ok, Thanks for the suggestion, whats the difference between this hypothetical moment 2p and the d-rainbow though? In terms of function & weight at least?

nico brilmyer
(niconotori) - F
. on 03/23/2011 23:45:57 MDT Print View

also, ought i consider silnylon if i want to prefer durability to weight but still remain in the UL fabric range?

And is it a wise move to create a quilt from entirely cuben? isn't cuben waterproof/ impermeable? The comparison that comes to my mind is a quilt made of down wrapped in goretex...

Edited by niconotori on 03/24/2011 00:00:23 MDT.

Chris Muthig
(cmuthig) - M

Locale: Georgia
Cuben Quilt on 03/24/2011 09:05:34 MDT Print View

For a tarp silnylon works well and is pretty common, along with spinn and cuben. Mine is made from silnylon because it is a cheap, light fabric. I'm not an expert on cuben (I am too cheap and inexperienced so far to work with it) but there are some threads around about cuben quilts. It can definitely be done and is by enLIGHTened
http://enlightenedequipment.webs.com/
I've seen a lot of people add a strip of Momentum along the top if they are worried about the quilt drying out.

nico brilmyer
(niconotori) - F
. on 03/24/2011 11:02:01 MDT Print View

I was more thinking it terms of backpacks sorry should have specified... Would a silnylon pack be a good idea for being a little more durable? I was thinking of modifying a Rayway project pack.



And does anyone else have anything to add about %100 cuben quilts?

Thanks! =)

nico brilmyer
(niconotori) - F
RE: Cuben Quilts on 03/24/2011 15:10:21 MDT Print View

I emailed Tim at Enlightened Equip. and this was his response:


"The benefit of the entire quilt being waterproof cuben fiber is 2 fold. 1) weight, even with .48 cuben you will be saving 3.5-4oz over a nylon quilt (around 1/4 pound!) 2)vapor barrier. A vapor barrier traps body heat better than breathable materials which allows a quilt with the same amount of down to be warmer which in essence saves weight too as you need less down but i don't really advertise this fact a lot as the amount of warmth saved depends on each user.

Moisture can build up if you allow yourself to get hot (even just one body part) and start to sweat. the footbox is fully adjustable to help combat moitsure build up but VB socks will help keep the foot drier. VB next to skin creates a smaller micro climate than vb quilt but VB quilt is easier to vent. I think VB socks are a good companion for a VB quilt.

I am not currently using the WPB cuben as it weighs as much as the lightweight nylons out there so i'd probably choose to use those instead. My revelation may use m50 when that becomes widely avaliable, we'll see. Also the WPB cuben is still in the testing stages, i can get it but have no idea when it will be "done"

-Tim"

For anyone who wants a good answer to my above question...

Still lookin for some wisdom on i guess it would be called "the most bombproof UL fabric" for use as a backpack.

Edited by niconotori on 03/24/2011 15:12:39 MDT.

Chris Muthig
(cmuthig) - M

Locale: Georgia
Fabric Options on 03/24/2011 18:50:35 MDT Print View

I can't really say the best fabric to use for a pack, but I have made a Gossamer Gear G4 based on the pattern you can purchase at Quest Outfitters. For that pack, I used 2.2oz ripstop and 4oz (I think) oxford canvas for the back and bottom and this combination is solid and weighs in at a pound. Currently, I am working on making a lighter version using ideas from the GG Whisper. That pack uses silnylon with 2.2oz ripstop. Based on this, it seems like silnylon will work well for you, but both Gossamer Gear and Zpacks use 2.2 ripstop on the bottom of their silnylon pack to make the pack last longer. Hope this helps. I would feel confident in the silnylon, but I am also going to reinforce portions of my pack with ripstop.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: ok on 03/26/2011 13:45:27 MDT Print View

Just got back from trip, gone a few days

Nico

I made mine from scratch. I don't use other people's patterns. That would be missing out on half the fun.

$320 is steep because it's made from Cuben - very lightweight but expensive. Also the fabrication techniques are different - tape or glue

If you want to MYOG, it would probably be best to make it out of silnylon.

Jay Ham wrote a good article http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/make_your_own_gear_5_yards_to_sul_part_3.html

I think if you do MYOG, you have to do it for the enjoyment of doing it, not just to save money. There are plenty of good tarps ready made.

John

I made that from 4 pieces (plus 2 for the beak) but it's just for evolutionary reasons. If I did it anew, I'de use 1 piece on each side with a catenary curve on the middle.