Woo just gt home the other night from some saint paddys fun, and to my surprise what do i find? My windrider is here! Immediately opened the box and tried it on, went for a medium (18.5" torso) and it fits pretty perfectly. The material is really quite interesting, a little stiff initially but I expect it will soften with age as its already starting to get creases and crinkles. The pocket layout is nice, especially the hip belts pockets...They put the bottom compression straps over the bottom of the water bottle pockets which i though would either make it impossible to store my bottles or impossible to compress but there's actually low enough where they dont interfere. At the moment, Im having a hard time putting the bottles back when wearing the pack, but that's mainly because I lost that contorting arm flexibility. I really dig the roll top idea, and with the roll top and a total of 4 compression straps his pack is going to be nice and snug. Inside the pack, there's a half pocket for your water bladder ( had to resist the immediate tendancy to cut the pocket out...) and the two sleeves for the aluminum stays. The stays are pretty small but coupled with the built in foam pad give the pack a good deal of support. I'll post some pictures tonight (they say they are worth a 1000 words and im lazy) and I'm going to put this pack through its paces next week!
Stay tuned....
mike!

You must have gotten one of the 2011 models, it sounds like it's a little bit different from mine.

The fabric does feel pretty weird, but it does soften up after a while. Even now though, after the Kilimanjaro hike plus biking around Seattle, it still *looks* like paper. :)

That fabric does get some attention from the outdoor folks. Almost every time I carry it with me when I go to REI, someone asks about it :)

My girlfriend and I have the older model as well. My girlfriend just got back from a 35 mile trip on the Na Pali Coast in Kauai and loved it.

...I get similar results at the REI in Lynnwood :)

and yes, still *looks* like paper...

Lynnwood, eh? I'm actually going to that neck of the woods soon -- hopefully, anyway.

That fabric still strikes me as looking a bit odd, but it works :)

Sweet little pack, is it Cuben or Dyneema. I'd like to see a pack like this in full lightweight dyneema (white) maybe dyed Gray though, like McHale does with their packs.

Cuben is mylar with Dyneema threads laminated to it to reinforce it. Spectra, in case you don't already know it, is the same thing with a different brand name (under license, AFAIK).

The HMG pack is a proprietary fabric that is basically, as I understand it, silnylon laminated to Cuben.

A full Dyneema version of this would cost more, and wouldn't be entirely waterproof, even though in my experience a full Dyneema pack does pretty well at keeping water out. If you stay out in the rain long enough, it will eventually soak through though, mostly at the zippers. It hasn't been enough to wet down any of the stuff inside yet, but I suspect that several days in the rain would do that.

With my Windrider I don't worry about rain. I just roll the top down a few wraps and snap the buckles, and go.

Its my understanding that full Spectra or Dyneema (same thing) are not the same as Cuben, as they are made entirely with Spectra thread and contain little to no Mylar. I had both a MLD Cuben pack and tarp, and now 2 McHale packs, and the lightweight spectra of the McHale's are nothing like Cuben fabric at all.

Edited by mfog1 on 03/19/2011 10:15:34 MDT.

I get confused myself.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't the often used word 'Cuben' simply come from the US company Cubi-tech?

They use Dyneema/Spectra in their Mylar Spectra/Dyneema sails and gave it a trade name 'Cuben Fibre'.

If HMG sell stuff as 'special', isn't it the same as the Dyneema that MLD, SMD and others use. ie, a Dyneema/Nylon mix?

Edited by MikefaeDundee on 03/19/2011 10:33:48 MDT.

Both Mikes are correct :)

Full Dyneema is woven, Cuben is Dyneema laminated to mylar.

Cuben is indeed Cubic Tech's brand name for their Dyneema-reinforced mylar fabric.

From HMG, per Rakesh

CF Nylon Hybrid: Used as the primary HMG pack material, this fabric is a unique rip-stop nylon/cuben fiber hybrid. Only slightly heavier than our other Cuben fiber versions, this high-performance, rip-stop material can withstand over twice the weight and strain as Cuben fiber alone, and is 100% waterproof.

Edited by mfog1 on 03/19/2011 10:38:33 MDT.

What can HMG Windrider Southwest pack owners tell me about the alum.stays, as to how you keep the stays from coming into contact with your back? Is there an internal foam pad, between the stays and the pack?
Also with regards to sizing, how do you find the torso fit, especially concerning the stays with regards to shoulder wrap-over with the shoulder straps.
I assume the stays are the same length as the back-panel, ending where the shoulder straps attach to the pack?

Ok, I see in the Michael Demchak original post that there is indeed a internal foam back panel, and alum.stays are standard in both packs.

Edited by mfog1 on 03/19/2011 11:32:56 MDT.

So what is HMG Cuben pack fabric made from? If it is nylon witrh a Dyneema weave, then it is no different than other pack makers?

I don't know exactly what it is, it's definitely different than other packs (esp. than the grid used on the Jam, etc). The inside looks like a mylar layer and parts have a slightly streaky look (like laid out dyneema), so maybe it's a layer of mylar with the dyneema, then laminated to a nylon face? It crinkles like cuben. The only other stuff I've seen that looks close is on the NWD packs from Cilogear. There's a high wear area to down the middle (the cilogear stuff feels thicker, but looks about the same).

here are some pictures, professionally done of course...for the pictures with me, i put in a weekend load of gear. Golite 20 quilt, Torsolite, DIY momentum bivy, MLD spinn Grace duo (on the outside), Henie pot/stove/fuel, Eddie Bauer down sweater, 3 days food, extra socks and shirt, with a 1 Liter platy on one side, and a .75 lexan on the other. all fits in with a ton of extra space. 5 days on the Colorado trail this summer should be easy! In one hipbelt pocket i was able to fit... camera, aqua mira (both bottles), petzl zipka and swiss army classic, with a bit of room to space. Note: after running around the yard with it on, the lexan bottle fell out the pocket, which leads me to believe that the lower compression strap might be cutting off to much space...

The fabric is definitely feels very bomber, which is something i was looking for. A pack that will last as long as my titan kettle! I'm also kind of excited that you can write on the pack with sharpie, I've got an artist friend who does some cool work...

I haven't played with the stays yet, but given they are AL i assume i can bend them to fit my back a bit more... Anyone have a good idea how? there are two included, so i need them to be even...

mike!

I just did a short 28 mi. 1 day test last weekend and learned a few valuable things about my Windrider.

1. The pack does not work very well if you fill it like a conventional frame pack.
- By that I mean that you can't take all of your gear and just stuff it in as hard as you can to compress everything. While the Windrider does have aluminum stays, they are not hyper rigid (more on that later). When I filled my pack in this fashion (cramming everything in) I found that it tended to "bulge" and not fit my back properly.
- I found that by packing everything in a manner that kept the pack thin and tall (not bulging out in all directions) it worked much better.
2. When packed right the aluminum stays naturally conformed to my back.
- As I mentioned before, the stays are not hyper rigid. They are somewhat flexible. This allow them to transfer weight while still conforming to the back. If you pack as if the bag did not have a frame (such as a GoLite Jam) and stack everything with as much structure as possible, this thing will carry like a dream (I carried aprox.
25 lbs. of gear.)
3. If you pack to fill the cavity but not overfill it (bulge the bag) you don't need to crank the compression straps as tight as you possibly can.
- I've found that cranking the snot out of the straps causes the pack to form a "cresent" shape. This prevents it from conforming to the back very well.
- Unless you don't have much in the cavity, the compression straps only need to be "snugged" up to stabilize the load. (providing you pack it properly)
- Since the straps don't need to be uber tight you can put water bottles inside the lower compression strap and then "snug" them down. I'm running 2 1L. Platys. One upside down with a hydration hose and the other right side up waiting to be switch out when my first runs dry. I've found that snugging the snugging the strap around the Platy give me a nice amount of pressure out of the hose as well.
- I ran after a friend who was 1/2 mile down the trail and had no problems with my Platys coming loose.

Hope this helps you guys. I'll have to post a few pics of my setup when I get a chance.

Here's a question:

I'm not really in the market for a new pack, but every time I look at the specs for the Windrider I end up wondering how it compares capacity-wise to the ULA Ohm. They seem to have relatively similar specs.

The numbers on the two corresponding websites don't really do a lot to help my visualization.

Any of you have both packs?

"The pack does not work very well if you fill it like a conventional frame pack"

I completely agree -- I think this is the key to start appreciating the design of this pack.

I just got back from a 30 mile trip using the Windrider and overall I'm impressed and it will be my go to backpacking pack. I agree with the comments above about packing it and that they stays will naturally conform to you. The outer fabric is tough, there were many spots where the trail was too thick with mud/water so brushing up against brush/rocks was common and it seems unaffected. Additionally there were many down trees so it was scraped against branches/trunks getting over/around/under them and besides some slight discoloration (which would probably wash out) the fabric looks great.

I would like to say that the pack is not waterproof as is (to his credit Mike did suggest this when I asked him about it before). It poured non-stop the last day of the trip and water got in (not as much as other packs as it appeared to be only happening at the seams). I plan to seam grip the outside (which should also help re-enforce the seams which seemed a little stressed when compressed to the max), and will let you know if that makes it fully waterproof. If you just ran into a light shower or quick storm you might be fine.