Companion forum thread to:

Fast and Light Winter Travel

Nice article with great scenery for this desert dweller - would like to savor the scenery instead of race through it however.

ADD: Is there's a comfortable (yet lightweight) solution to sleeping bag condensation on multi-day cold weather trips?

Edited by hknewman on 03/15/2011 14:28:04 MDT.

Well done Luc, super insightful and inspiring. FYI (for those that haven't done it), racing often means you see things better than you ever thought possible. Fast =/= hasty.

Edit police:

"pruskes"

pretty sure the ski weight and binding weight are both twice what they should be.

Edit:
Watch the video!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuxAAaFwciQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Edited by DaveC on 03/15/2011 15:50:30 MDT.

> Is there's a comfortable (yet lightweight) solution to sleeping bag condensation on
> multi-day cold weather trips?
Sort of ...
UL quilts for each person and a light outer quilt over the lot. The inner layers stay dry, but the top outer layer can get damp.

Cheers

Doesn't the outer quilt need to be synthetic for this dampness?

--B.G.--

Clear winter days work very well to dry out damp gear- I just strap stuff onto the outside of the pack. That said, you are kind of hosed if the skies aren't clear...

"Doesn't the outer quilt need to be synthetic for this dampness?"

yup yup yup ...

or better yet use yr synth belay jacket ...

Fascinating report! Personally, I would have brought an extra pair of boot liners, so I could dry one inside my clothes while skiing with the other pair, but I am certainly no expert. I would also have brought a sleeping bag with a water-resistant shell. That front pouch is interesting: what pack worked best, or did sewing the front of a shirt into a pouch work best?

Re: “My biggest breakthrough was realizing that I can stay warm by moving, and that I can move all day and night if needed.” Even with a broken leg? Even in dense fog? Even after you’ve been mauled by a grizzly? (after hibernation is over). Even in a zero-visibility blizzard with 100 mph winds, 50-below temperatures, and snow that is falling inches per hour?

Edited by RobertM2S on 03/15/2011 23:39:13 MDT.

just Awsome !
WhooWAAA ! and great pictures.
if i was not a fat, old, out of shape, sissy, i'd be right in there ... spectating.
--
i have printed your list, and i can't wait to tear into my gear matrix. right after i finish my coffee..
--
query:
what's the benny from a stiff sled and not the slightly flexible type from silgen/northern sled/fairbanks ?
---
thank you for sharing wisdom hard won.

peter v.

Hi all!
Luc confirmed that the weights for his skis and bindings were double what they should have been. The spreadsheet and totals have been corrected - those who have printed the gear list may want to reprint!

Luc also reminded me that he'd submitted a video with the rest of his article. I embedded it.

Thanks all! This was a pleasure to read. From my kitchen table. With a homemade latte. ;)
Addie

Robert-- I'm still trying to get the stomach pouch figured out. A backpack was nice except that the shoulder straps were irritating. My strategy this year is a two-ply basketball jersey from the thrift store- cutting/sewing a pouch between the two layers in the front, removing extra fabric from the back.

Regarding not being able to move with a broken leg, etc.: Yes, that would not fit our strategy very well. I expect that one partner would stay with me, heat water, share parka and sleeping bags, etc., while the other 'Independent Nation' would coordinate help/rescue.

-Luc

Hi Peter- We don't use sleds because they significantly slow the pace on mixed terrain. There are some pictures of sleds from Ed Plumb's team, but as you can see, they were on their backs most of the time. I might feel differently if the pack was 60+ pounds, but at our weights there is no need.

> Doesn't the outer quilt need to be synthetic for this dampness?

Well, ours is very fine 800 loft down. I think the down does dry out a bit in the evening while we are active and cooking. But we don't sleep 'hot' so we don't sweat much at night.
Works very well for us.

Cheers

As the old saying goes:

"You don't sweat much for a fat girl."

--B.G.--

This is the kind of article I read BPL for. Finding the edge of your abilities and gear, pushing that edge just a bit and coming home safe to tell the world (and particularly your parental financial backers) about it all.

I would personally welcome more trip and gear related articles from AMWC participants (both winter and summer). Not everyone is a racer but the techniques and skills required to attempt and succeed at these events are so valuable when applied to leisure backpacking and skiing.

Re: "Robert-- I'm still trying to get the stomach pouch figured out. A backpack was nice except that the shoulder straps were irritating. My strategy this year is a two-ply basketball jersey..." I just ordered a baby carrier from "diaper.com" to see if I can rig a similar system. The one I ordered fits women up to 6 feet, 5 inches, with a 48-inch waist (a female Shaq?) They also have slings with no straps.

For those interested in the ski gear, David Chenault Ski gear for backcountry traverses blog post is worth reading.

Cheers

Sam has it right. You don't need to be a racer for valuable take-home-messages.

Awesome story and actually a great event, much less punishing than the summer race. Does demand a slightly enlarged skill set however.

I find that with my two pound 15* sleeping bag, I start to get cold between 25 and 30* at night, (I'm a cold sleeper).
On my hikes when the temperature will drop bellow 25, I'll take along my homemade quilt that has 9 ounces of down and weighs 15 ounces.
With that added quilt, it fills every little gap and air pocket in the bag and helps bring the top-loft up significantly.
I can easily stay warm down to 5* with the combination of the two.

I nice light synthetic bag would definitely be the best addition to a 20* bag in this case.

Has anyone used neoprene socks (with or without a thin liner sock) as a cushioned vapor barrier sock for winter conditions? Change to a wool sock while resting and invert the neoprene sock to dry.

Ted

Edited by trosen8231 on 03/18/2011 17:12:25 MDT.

I started using SealSkinz this year and I've been very happy with them. I wear a thin Smartwool sock underneath.

I've used a variety of VB socks in the winter with mixed success. I have to really hold back the exertion level or I can literally pour sweat out of the sock at the end of the day. The big problem for me with VB socks is that they are impossible to vent. Easily vented VB mitts and jackets, on the other hand, are a core part of my winter layer system.

Also, neoprene in particular would not be my first choice for a VB sock -- it swells with moisture and can create a tight fit in your boot, reducing blood circulation.

One climate's shoulder conditions are another's winter: I like neoprene socks for fall and spring when there's snow and water.

Neoprene socks were popular on winter-like Denali climbs in the 1980s, inside double climbing boots.

When I hike in neoprene socks I am using them with the intention that they will get wet. I also ski across summer icefields in AK with them; however, I have never used them near 0F temps. The are, for me, a near 0C foot system.

Thermo ski boot liners are made of various sorts of closed cell foam with a light fabric liner. They are thus, to a certain extent, vapor barriers. The liner gets wet, but the foam cannot.

Not all liner fabrics in thermo liners are created equal. My Scarpa liners have a much thicker, softer liner fabric, which soaks up a fair bit of sweat. My Intuition liners have a very thin, insubstantial liner fabric, which soaks up very little sweat. I prefer the later for overnights, as they can be left out overnight and don't really freeze up much.

Beautiful photos and video, wish I could do that.

Re the sleeping bag - I think you could lose at least 100 grams and be warmer by switching to a WM bag or something of similar quality - their 10F bags are actually lighter than the REI bag.

Wonderful photos. Now I'll guess I will go back and read your text!

...fantastic report! There is nothing like racing to focus on kit and technique and this one is classic! Very interesting reading for a warm weather endurance racer - that level of cold is so alien and so intriguing!

Regarding boots and VB socks...

I think we move too fast, produce too much sweat, for VB socks to work. We wore VB socks in leather boots the first year and all got horrible blisters and minor trenchfoot. None of us has touched VB socks since. I like being able to wring out water and dry my socks a bit sleeping with them at night.

I peeled the fabric off of one thermofit liner to compare water absorption. After a long day trip with no gaiter, the bare liner was 80 g lighter, ~50 g due to the removed fabric, and ~30 g due to water weight. I really like the idea of not carrying that water!

Intuition makes a bare mtneering liner, but can't make a bare ski liner. I'm not ready to take scissors to my new liners, but as soon as they lose that 'new shoe' smell, I'll strip them down.

-Luc

Luc, I'll be interested to hear if removing the lining fabric results in more friction, and possible problems. Might be able to deal with that (if it happens) with two thin socks.

Friction hasn't been a problem for me, wearing a single pair of ski socks. I peeled the fabric layer off the top of my insoles and that has been fine too. I just want to get as much moisture out of the boot as possible.

Incredible trip; well written, enticing photos.
Congratulations.

Looks interesting, but the link is broken. I guess an updated one would be:
http://bedrockandparadox.com/2010/10/31/ski-gear-for-backcountry-traverses/