The newer designs are trying to incorporate passive cooling for post scram cooling w/ active safety system availability. AP1000 is one that has recieved final design approval from the USNRC (not sure about elsewhere) -- though it still has its questions to answer.

NHK is advising that everyone within 10 ks of the the reactor is to evacuate - about 60,000 people.

"Uranium supply should be of pretty low concern relative to other forms of "fuel". Heck, the steel needed for a plant is probably scarcer than U235."

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_market

There is 80 years of supply of Uranium at current consumption levels

If we increase the number of nuclear plants, this is obviously reduced

This is not much of a long term solution to energy production

If we could make fast breeder reactors, and figure out how to process the fuel, it would multiply the usable supply by a factor of 100, plus it would largely solve the waste problem, but this would require expensive development and the final result would be more expensive than the already expensive nuclear plants. Maybe we should work on that.

was almost to fort bragg (very close to trail) when i got stuck in the morass of roadblocks designed so that every fiefdom of gov't near that region could get in on the money and glory of saving peter.
there where police road closures, sheriff closures, highway patrol closures, eventually a fireman closure guy told me just to go back home,."it's useless, and if you ge there, they;ll probably just throw you out.."
was up on a substantial cliff at 8am and saw the monster hit. oh brother. it covered up a rock and some seaweed.
---
on the other hand.
was "scheduled" to be parked On The Beach in Usal at 8m and sleeping in my rig, which could have been icky depending upon how high above the tide line things got parked.
got sidetracked by shepherding two blitzed chicks back to town last night and that made me so late i did't make Usal beach.

"Maybe i could give you ladies a lift back into town, as it looks like that's the direction you came from. it might not be a bad idea, as ya'll look about half knackered.."

"just WHAT exactly makes you think We've been drinking" in a acquisatory tone.

"well .. for one.. you just asked me for jumper cables .. and for two .. and the both of you haven't quite figured this out yet ... your van won't move .. because ... there's a TREE stuck underneath it..."


twas an interesting evening.

v.

Was trying to find anything specific in republican spending cuts

http://republicans.appropriations.house.gov/_files/ProgramCutsFY2011ContinuingResolution.pdf

But not a lot of specifics, this is just a broad proposal and since it isn't being passed it's sort of irrelevant

Lots of cuts to FEMA - if we had an earthquake closer to home we can see how an efficient FEMA would be money well spent. There's potential for a worse quake off the Oregon/Washington coast so I'm worried.

I have heard they want to cut the NOAA Tsunami warning center in Hawaii - maybe they should incease spending on this

Their most vicious cuts are to developing alternate energy - we can see that long term (decades) we have major problems - hydrocarbons produce carbon dioxide that may have catastrophic effects, oil supply is limited, uranium supply is limited/no solution to waste/no matter how safe the proponents claim this is I am not so sure:

We need to be researching long term solutions - this is where government is best because private business is better on problems with short term profits

"We need to be researching long term solutions - this is where government is best because private business is better on problems with short term profits"

And how on earth do you know this? Are you even aware that there are companies with 100 year and 250 year business plans? And why do you want to throw out this kind of tripe in this particular thread?

--------------------------------------------------

I want to get back to the OP. I have gone through a couple of the largest quakes in Calif history. But 8.4 or 8.9? This is almost beyond comprehension. Add the tsunami too! After a large quake, the after shocks continue for months, and some are rather large. Every after shock traumatizes a lot of people.

Miguel, hoping you and your family are okay.

"And how on earth do you know this? Are you even aware that there are companies with 100 year and 250 year business plans? And why do you want to throw out this kind of tripe in this particular thread?"

There may be some companies that have 100 and 250 business plans but you saying that shows you are attached to your beliefs and will defend them at all costs

If you call something tripe it shows you have no logical argument

I agree with you, this would be very traumatizing and hope everyone recovers as best possible

Good to learn any lessons we can so future catostrophies aren't as traumatic

For example, the Japanese have learned from the past and have strong building codes which limited damage

Are you even aware that there are companies with 100 year and 250 year business plans?

Nick, where should I start on that?

1) Care to name some?
2) What % of the world's GDP do the represent?
3) What's their research/planning budgets as % of revenue?
4) Most importantly, what's the compensation structure for their top decision makers, how does it ignore or at least de-emphasize short term gain and emphasize very long term gain?

Number 4 is there because in my life I've frequently observed folks who's words bare no relationship with their actions.

Jerry and Jim, if you want to debate it, please start a new thread in Chaff.

I am not going to do the research for you. I will give one that I know about. Matsu$hita Electric. I found out about this a few years ago while doing research on solar technology. This company developed a 250 year plan a long time ago. Last I checked, Matsu$hita and its subsidiaries were ranked among the 100 largest companies in the world. Don't know if you would consider that large enough to be of any significance. And not that I even care, seems I remember reading somewhere that the terrorist group Greenpeace viewed this company favorably.

There are US companies that have 100 year plans.

I also wish that we would not present personal observations or experience as empirical data.

----------------------------------------

Out of respect for the people of Japan, I feel any further discussion in this particular thread is inappropriate.

:)

P.S. I am not mad (e.g., not upset)

P.P.S. I had to misspell the name with a $ (dollar sign) (how appropriate), because BPL would not allow the post due to possible profanity. Hmmm....

Most will be more familiar with Panasonic , MATSUSHITA's consumer brand name (now the official company name)
Franco

Edited by Franco on 03/12/2011 17:35:05 MST.

"I want to get back to the OP. I have gone through a couple of the largest quakes in Calif history. But 8.4 or 8.9? This is almost beyond comprehension. Add the tsunami too! After a large quake, the after shocks continue for months, and some are rather large. Every after shock traumatizes a lot of people."

I am not trying to belittle what Japan is going through, but the tsunami is clearly far more terrifying and damaging than the quake. The quake was 8.9 'at the focus', which was 130km from the nearest coast and 380km from Tokyo, at a depth of 25km. Especially in terms of Tokyo, though the shaking was no doubt ferocious and the aftershocks relentless, it would be felt as no where near an 8.9. I would be interested to know the Modified Mercali rating for what went on in Tokyo. As a more personal example, we had a 7.1 quake back in Decemeber, ~40km from the city centre, and it did not feel as strong or do as much damage as our more recent 6.3 quake which was basically under the city and very shallow (<5km). A geologist friend of mine also has told me that shakes generated from subduction zone movements are not as damaging as other similar magnitude movements such as from strike/slip faults. Still, glad I was no where near the place. The thoughts of being in a high-rise city like Tokyo in any kind of quake terrifies me. I have seen first hand how even buildings built to the highest earthquake standards at the time can fail in the wrong kind of shaking...no fun being inside or outside near high-rises in an earthquake.

I too worry about the west coast of America, especially since I'm going there soon, but will stay as briefly as possible!

Edited by retropump on 03/12/2011 21:09:01 MST.

If you read the article you linked...it essentially says... the supply at current demand based on known (b/c it has been previously identified) reserves will support about 80 yrs -- based on the current market recovery price. Definatly not the same as "we know we only have enough U235 for 80yrs. Further on in the article there is a table the mentions there would probably be enough to support millenia. The think is -- its not a heavily search for mineral. We could try much harder to find more and would find more. More could be found at a higher recoverable price -- double that number ($130/kg) and I bet you quadruple the amound of known supply.

Recyling fuel is already done in France and other countries. The technology is there. Another viable option is reprocessing nuclear weapons to be used as fuel. U235 isn't the only viable nuclear fuel. If interested look into the Thorium fuel cycle

One thing they mentioned is that there's a lot of Uranium in seawater

The article also mentioned that increasing the supply beyond 80 years is more expensive, and reactors are already super expensive

"I too worry about the west coast of America, especially since I'm going there soon, but will stay as briefly as possible!"

We get used to quakes. Fault zones like the San Andreas are fairly well defined, and you can walk right out to a spot and stand with one foot on one side and the other foot on the other side. Try Hollister California. As long as the San Andreas keeps slipping periodically, like it does, the pressure is relieved, and we get little bumps like 5.0 or 5.5. Some of the faults are not so well defined, and some have had little pressure relief. So, those are the loudly ticking time bombs. I've gotten so used to quakes that I am calibrated during sleep. I will not wake up for 5.0, but I will wake up for 5.5. Fortunately, ever since the Sylmar quake forty years ago, the building codes have been tightened up very nicely.

So, when I hear the news about 8.9... Yikes!

It makes me go and re-inventory my earthquake preparedness cache.

--B.G.--

"I too worry about the west coast of America, especially since I'm going there soon, but will stay as briefly as possible!"

The California quakes are babies, no need to worry

The one to worry about is off Oregon and Washington

Subduction zone like the Japan, only it's longer so it could be worse

Last happened 300 years ago. Happens about once every 300 years - we're due

But if you're just visiting no need to worry, chance of it happening while you're visiting is remote

If you wanted to live next to the ocean for many years, within 100 feet elevation, maybe you should worry

I think I read today that the subduction zone off Oregon was the only zone in the ring of fire that hasn't had a major earthquake in the last 100 years. Scary. Wish there was a way to help our BPL members in Japan, or help them help others.

We indeed intend to tour up through Oregon and Washington, and it is this subduction zone that worries me to some extent. However I also grew up in California, was in SoCal for the Sylmar quake and really don't want to be in a concrete jungle for another round (remember the bridge that fell down in Sylmar, they rebuilt it and it fell down again in Northridge???). This is where we will spend most of our time, and the San Andreas is due for a very big move sometime (soon??). Note: The Sylmar and Northridge quakes were not the same as the San Andreas moving along the main fault line. They would have relieved little/no pressure on the San Andreas in SoCal. To be fair, Christchurch is expecting a similar quake on our alpine fault, with about the same probability as the San Andreas. The quakes we had recently here were more the equivalent of a Sylmar or Northridge event. I would just rather be stuck here in the aftermath of a major quake (where we are prepared as long as we survive the initial disaster) as opposed to somewhere where we have no control over water, sanitation, food, cooking or shelter and could possibly be stuck there for a while. Here, the land around me is full of food and water as long as I can walk, and our own supplies, including fuel to boil water and cook food, as we have now well tested, can last a very long time if need be.

Jerry, I was reading about the potential for a Cascadia Subduction Zone earthquake the other day - scary stuff.

They say its a 10-15% chance of an 8.5-9.0 quake in the next 50 years. There are also estimates of a tsunami with wave heights of up to 100 feet.

Goodbye Cannon Beach.

The earthquake in Japan has been officially upgraded to magnitude 9.0

The nuclear power plant in Fukushima is in very serious condition, might very well go into a meltdown.

http://tinyurl.com/5ucp2s6

Whatever it is on the scale... watching the videos and photos, I am simply dumbfounded!!

Probably like most people, I have a feeling the casualty list will grow immensely in the week(s) ahead. And yet, Japan is ahead of everybody else in terms of earthquake preparedness. Is there anyone who still fancies the notion that man has tamed Nature? I think not.