NB Minimus vs. Merrell Trail Glove
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Hart -
(backpackerchick) - MLife

Locale: Planet Earth
Thanks Dan on 07/29/2011 17:55:29 MDT Print View

My concerns exactly. Thank goodness for the RRS 90 day return policy! As I said, I recently picked up a pair of Trail Minimus and a pair of 101s.

The Minimus does not reek of durability but I suppose there would be less force in that particular area as they lack the stiff plastic layer. They seem to built in such a way that makes the injury shown in the picture unlikely. However, they do seem delicate throughout. (Keep in mind the Minimus is MUCH snugger in the heel than the 101.)

Can you elaborate a bit on what those 101s were exposed to. Just trail running/walking on dirt? Scrambling? Bouldering? Did you add an insole with rigid plastic heel counter to those?

There was a question as to whether the uppers of these shoes are made of the same material. NO! Very different. Minimus incorporates a couple different weights of very thin mesh. 101s are made of a much heavier material -- almost like a light canvas in feel -- it's a mesh but much different.

Edited by backpackerchick on 07/29/2011 20:01:01 MDT.

gavin wenyon
(gavin123)
NB vs Trail Glove Vs Inov8 on 07/29/2011 19:58:11 MDT Print View

I prefer the Inov8 f-lite 195, especially when using them for walking. When running on trails i tend to go with the Merrell true gloves over my inov-8's since it has a tougher sole with a zero drop.

When walking with the 195's, I really notice having that 4mm lift at the back and soft EVA foam sole for rocky terrain.



195

Edited by gavin123 on 07/29/2011 20:00:05 MDT.

Hart -
(backpackerchick) - MLife

Locale: Planet Earth
Me too!! on 07/29/2011 20:00:15 MDT Print View

Dan, just took a closer look at mine. After ONLY TWENTY miles, I can tell, I'm gonna have the same problem. Exactly like yours! I think I know why. The outsole is slightly flared out at the heel (and the edge is somewhat sharp on this shoe) -- when this is the case, I tend to occasionally very slightly graze the edge of the outsole against the the upper of other shoe -- at that moment when both feet are off the ground. I generally don't even feel it. I often see a bit of abrasion usually further up in the fabric of a shoe after MANY miles but I've never destroyed a shoe like your 101s.

Edited by backpackerchick on 07/29/2011 20:03:57 MDT.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
MT101 on 07/29/2011 20:44:23 MDT Print View

"Can you elaborate a bit on what those 101s were exposed to. Just trail running/walking on dirt? Scrambling? Bouldering? Did you add an insole with rigid plastic heel counter to those?"

My use was pretty gentle. I got the shoes and wore them casually (ie. around town) on a few occasions first. Then I did two 5km runs (ie. 6 miles of running) and everything since then has just been normal trail walking / hiking. I suspect the cause of this is my heel slipping around in the heel area and pushing on the wall of the shoe. A few times I felt like there was a bit of side to side play in the heel area, so my heel would slip a bit and push on the wall.

I almost always wore these with thin socks. I went barefoot a couple short times.

Edited by dandydan on 07/29/2011 20:48:02 MDT.

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: watching for rocks constantly on 07/29/2011 20:55:49 MDT Print View

>> because I don't want to be watching for rocks constantly

Then you don't need minimalist shoes. Keep in mind, they are more like going barefooted than traditional shoes with the padding and thick heels.

You need to spend time building up your feet and legs to the new shoes. No kicking rocks, roots, etc. You need to focus on your foot steps. After a while, you begin to do this unconsciously. But at first you really need to pay attention AND CONSTANTLY watch for anything that would hurt your foot.

Give it some thought.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Minimalist on 07/29/2011 21:12:20 MDT Print View

It's true that I'm not really interested in minimalist footwear for the normally stated reasons like improving foot health and running/walking technique. I like these ideas, but not if it comes at the expense of a considerable learning curve where I'm not enjoying hiking as much because I'm watching every step.

My main reasons for wanting minimalist type shoes are:
1) Light weight
2) Quick drying (ie. less padding to hold water)
3) Less heal lift (I like how this walks)

I like the design of the Merrell Trail Gloves in the sense that they would hold virtually no water and of course they are extremely light. I do want rock protection though, so I'm going to look shoes from Inov-8 and the Montrail Rogue Runners. It sounds like trail running flats may be more what I want.

Edited by dandydan on 07/29/2011 22:22:02 MDT.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: NB Minimus vs. Merrell Trail Glove on 07/30/2011 00:49:42 MDT Print View

I have both the Trail Glove and the Minimus. I like them both and have tried them both walking the mountains. I found that soles of both are adequate for non-rocky areas, but the moments sharp rocks come into play, they tend to hurt quite a lot. Some people have said that the Trail Glove has a thicker sole than the Minimus... for it me is just doesn't feel that way... the Minimus feels much more substantial and protective in the sole. It also has better grip on loose soil and in dampened mud. The overall feel while using socks seems to work better with the Minimus. I now use the Minimus for hiking, but have relegated the Trail Gloves to city running.

I still prefer my FiveFingers for overall feel and sensing the ground. They still feel the most "barefoot!. They just have terrible traction and, for me at least, socks (toe socks) don't feel comfortable in them.

Hart -
(backpackerchick) - MLife

Locale: Planet Earth
Minimalist Protection? on 07/30/2011 11:14:33 MDT Print View

Minimalist shoes have minimalist protection. The movement is about putting LESS between you and the earth. Perhaps, the senses are the best rock protection. What kind of rocks are we talking about anyway? And protection of the sole of the foot or the side of the foot? On the positive side, the lighter the shoe, the more you can feel the rock before you commit full weight.

Edited by backpackerchick on 07/30/2011 11:15:59 MDT.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: NB Minimus vs. Merrell Trail Glove on 07/30/2011 11:47:19 MDT Print View

I do know what barefoot walking and running are about... have been doing it much longer than the present fad likes to call its own, including a lot of taking off of shoes and hiking barefoot or hiking in light sandals. However, I walk in the Japan Alps where there is a lot of volcanic rock, much of it needle sharp. High among the 3,000 meter peaks, especially when descending very rocky, very steep trails (grading is much more severe in Japan... often trails go straight down), even when you take care placing your feet, you're going to end up coming down upon sharp, pointed rock edges and even with a light pack, that hurts! Through the sole, not the side of the shoes. Do it long enough and you can end up mashing up your feet, even feet used to lots of barefoot walking. I do think that there are points when people go too far just because something is popular.

Hart -
(backpackerchick) - MLife

Locale: Planet Earth
Rocks vs. Rock on 07/30/2011 13:29:31 MDT Print View

Thanks butuki!

You are brave to try them on such stuff! You aren't talking about the loose or embedded rocks/rock beds one encounters from time to time on the JMT, TMB, etc! Random Rocks on "good" trail.

Edited by backpackerchick on 07/30/2011 13:32:33 MDT.

Hart -
(backpackerchick) - MLife

Locale: Planet Earth
Re: NB vs Trail Glove Vs Inov8 on 07/30/2011 15:26:11 MDT Print View

Gavin, I've been curious about a number of the Inovs. In the past, I could only find them in Unisex sizes (which are of course Mens!). While they do come in small sizes, I always figured they'd be too wide/high volume. I'm gonna order a few from RRS along with a pair of Newtons (a little on the pricey side).

Edited by backpackerchick on 07/30/2011 15:28:16 MDT.

Hart -
(backpackerchick) - MLife

Locale: Planet Earth
Minimi are like slippers on 07/31/2011 05:08:17 MDT Print View

Loving Minimi more each little stint. Hating forefoot plate on 101 -- too stiff. Once you've tried the Minimus, the 101 is just another clunker. Minimus feels more like my Bikala FFs (new to these too) than 101's. Getting in a few more miles. There is going to be an adjustment period for me. (That's what the "experts" say and I believe 'em now!) I am (was!) a heel striker so it's gonna be an overhaul. Would like to find a track coach in my area who has an interest in this natural running stuff and a good understanding of the mechanics of walking and running. I am now 7 mos post thoracic spine injury and only beginning to approach baseline conditioning. Sporting the Minimi, I am not much bothered by the occasional rock or rocky areas or various metal reinforcements poking through the dirt. (To clarify: I have not used them on any volcanic rock or razor sharp tufa yet!) Generally pretty conscious of the terrain as I walk/run so no big change in that respect. IT band and achilles feeling it a bit -- new gait, lack of conditioning? But they feel so natural. Last 1/2 hour easy downhill in the dark. Left my torch in my pack to have to feel the earth! The earth felt good!
minimi
Kicking up my heels on the trail today! Minimi feel like ballet slippers! Guess, I'll have to rethink the skirt!

I am planning about 6 weeks of thru hiking beginning in about a month. Probably a bit early to seriously consider something like this for the long haul. Would love to find a slightly beefier but still flat trail runner -- like training wheels. I like the stance -- my posture feels nice. The not quite minimalist ;)

Edited by backpackerchick on 07/31/2011 05:34:44 MDT.

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Minimi are like slippers on 07/31/2011 11:31:56 MDT Print View

Have you visited toesalad.com and perused the directory? Click on the Directory tab.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: Minimi are like slippers on 07/31/2011 14:18:42 MDT Print View

Saucony Peregrine? How did Hartley hurt her thoracic spine?

Edited by jshann on 07/31/2011 14:19:12 MDT.

Hart -
(backpackerchick) - MLife

Locale: Planet Earth
Peregrine on 07/31/2011 16:17:28 MDT Print View

Thanks John! I like the official description. Have you tried it?

Injury...let's hijack this thread why don't we? Wasn't there something about another Minimus thread getting hijacked? LOL The lesion is impressive the story is not! The cord has been spared and that is the bottom line! More later.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Peregrine on 07/31/2011 16:52:36 MDT Print View

The Saucony Peregrine are excellent so far, considerably more underfoot protection and midsole cushion than the Minimus, more along the lines of the 101, a really good distance running shoe without being a behemoth clunker with all the silly devices shoe companies heap on trail shoes. The Peregrine are 'flattish' with a 4mm drop and stable low to the ground footbed . They're supposedly similar to the Kinvara, maybe in fit. I found the Kinvara 'mushy', deliberately so.

I've been running in my Peregrine pair for 2 weeks so far, 11 runs later they're the shoe I've been looking for as an everyday training and racing shoe while still maintaining a level of minimalism (ie. neutral, light, low heel/toe drop, flexible, simple upper). I can run in these all week and not agonize over my foot condition and focus on the running, with the Minimus I had to think too much and often my feet were pretty tired by weeks end. Minimus are a great short distance shoe, not ideal for running on rocky technical trails at length for me, took some breaking in of the shoe to realise that.

The outsole is pretty aggressive and tacky, my favorite feature set on the Peregrine, ideal for sandy and rocky aggregate trails. I didn't notice it until after a week of running in them, Saucony threw in a gaiter hook near the front of the shoe, so they're gaiter compatible. Gusseted tongue is a plus. Sockless friendly interior is also a deal sealer for me. The Peregrine probably don't meeting the strict standards of the barefoot lifestyle purist camp, who cares, for somone who just wants a simple flat shoe that provides protection and traction that can handle trail time, the Peregrine meets that criteria.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: Peregrine on 07/31/2011 19:45:52 MDT Print View

Hartley, I have not bought the peregrine yet, but will be trying them soon. I wanted to try them on before buying but have not found them locally. Eugene's mini review sounds pretty good.

Hart -
(backpackerchick) - MLife

Locale: Planet Earth
Peregrine on 07/31/2011 20:46:57 MDT Print View

Yeah, thanks Eugene. Excellent review.

John, If you join road runner sports VIP club (I forget how much it is...$49/yr maybe), you get 10% off everything, free 2 day shipping, if they don't have brick and mortar in TX, tax free and ninety days to return them if they aren't working out for you. The service is great! They have those ready return labels -- it's a flat rate no matter how many pair you return in the package. And...they have Peregrines! www.roadrunnersports.com

Edited by backpackerchick on 07/31/2011 20:49:28 MDT.

Hart -
(backpackerchick) - MLife

Locale: Planet Earth
52 "Caveman Trainers" on 07/31/2011 20:54:48 MDT Print View

http://www.roadrunnersports.com/rrs/search/search-celebros.jsp?Query=Caveman&cm_re=hp-_-hero-_-caveman

Hart -
(backpackerchick) - MLife

Locale: Planet Earth
$1.99 on 07/31/2011 20:58:42 MDT Print View

Road Runner VIP Club NOW only $1.99 for first year! http://www.roadrunnersports.com/rrs/products/RAC55/?cm_sp=header-_-vip_banner-_-joinvip That's insane!