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abdon gonzalez
(abdon@sillypages.com) - F

Locale: Misawa, Japan
Patagonia Capilene 3 Vs. 4 on 10/09/2006 19:48:44 MDT Print View

To summarize, Capilene garments come in three weights:

Capilene 1 - 3.7 oz/yd2
Capilene 2 - 4.0 oz/yd2
Capilene 3 - 4.8 oz/yd2
Capilene 4 - 5.3 oz/yd2

The prices for the long sleve zipped versions are as follows:

Capilene 2 - about $35
Capilene 3 - about $40
Capilene 4 - about $75

Stupid question: is the extra .4 oz/yd of the #4 worth the 90% price increase over the #3? If you have owned both a #3 and a #4, would you please care to comment?

abdon gonzalez
(abdon@sillypages.com) - F

Locale: Misawa, Japan
The more I think about it on 10/09/2006 22:45:44 MDT Print View

The more I think about it, the more stupid it sounds. 90% price increase for a hair over 10% more insulation material...

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: The more I think about it on 10/10/2006 00:32:10 MDT Print View

Much as I love Patagonia designs I very rarely buy any of their stuff any more. The prices are totally ridiculous. Not only that, in the same way that computer software is limited in its regional distribution, I cannot buy Patagonia items online from countries outside Japan, where Patagonia prices are truly astronomical (for example in America the Men's Stretch Element Jacket is $375.00. In Japan the same jacket goes for ¥51,975, or $437.00) Don't ask me why.

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
Why pay retail when you can get it... on 10/10/2006 00:42:03 MDT Print View

.... for yourself wholesale. Or near enough.

That's why not a few people make many of their Patagonia purchases through the P. site's web specials, their big annual clearance sales, or through their factory outlet stores.

Patience is eventually rewarded. At least that's how it works out for me.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: Why pay retail when you can get it... on 10/10/2006 00:55:15 MDT Print View

When I lived in the States I often drove up to Maine from Boston, on my way to the mountains, to drop by and cash in on the factory outlet deals. I know they must exist in Japan somewhere but my Japanese is not good enough to find out where, plus, since they are usually off the train routes along highways, and I don't have a car, it's hard to get to many of them. The online deals in the States are prohibited from being sold in Japan. It's strange. Montane gear is also very expensive in Japan, but I have no trouble ordering it from abroad, at substantially reduced prices. Patagonia Japan doesn't allow that. Again, don't ask me why.

Edited by butuki on 10/10/2006 00:57:07 MDT.

abdon gonzalez
(abdon@sillypages.com) - F

Locale: Misawa, Japan
Re: Re: The more I think about it on 10/10/2006 01:07:39 MDT Print View

This year my 8 years old daughter into snowboarding. My idea of snowboarding is backcountry so that's where we are going to learn :). I'm trying to keep her as comfy and warm as possible, and the Capilene sounds like a good choice. Any other options for that kind of money would be welcome.

The step of Capilene #2 to #3 makes sense: a 20% increase in fabric for less than 20% hike in price. As I have stated above, #3 to #4 is preposterous. Sounds like somebody said "Let's add a smiget more fabric and double the price to see if anybody bites”.

Miguel, where are you at? I’m in Misawa AFB, Aomori ken. I’m lucky enough to have access to USPS through the base.

Joseph Rothstein
(joe_r) - F
fabric weights on 10/10/2006 01:24:11 MDT Print View

The more I think about it, the more stupid it sounds. 90% price increase for a hair over 10% more insulation material...

The weight of the fabric alone doesn't tell you how much insulation it provides. The construction of the #4 fabric might be such that it provides far more insulation than the #3, but you'd probably need to feel them side-by-side to check. For example, a microfleece layer gives a lot more insulation for a given weight than does a standard baselayer fabric. I agree that the price for the #4 is outrageous, but that's what happens when you pay full price for Patagonia products.

Edited by joe_r on 10/10/2006 01:27:30 MDT.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: The more I think about it on 10/10/2006 01:41:55 MDT Print View

Hi Abdon. I'm in Tokyo... a long way away from you! lol! I love Aomori, but, man, the winters are "c"o"l"d" there! Did you get a lot of snow last winter? I hear the whole Tohoku region was inundated with record snows. Niigata had 3 meters in one day last December!

Edited by butuki on 10/10/2006 02:51:09 MDT.

D P
(dpenney) - F
Re: Patagonia Capilene 3 Vs. 4 on 10/10/2006 07:02:20 MDT Print View

To me, Capilene 3 feels more like a thick t-shirt material, whereas 4 is more of a fleece. If you recall the R.5 shirts, the material is similar/the same. I won't comment on the prices, as I find Patagonia's move towards recycling very honourable and I guess someone has to pay for that research ;)

Although the website says that web specials are only for U.S. residents, I've taken advantage of those deals living outside the U.S. by ordering over the phone.

J W
(jhaura) - F

Locale: www.Trailability.com
Re: Capiline 3 vs. 4 on 10/10/2006 10:00:12 MDT Print View

There is a big difference in the two. Cap 3 is normal mid-weight base layer material a flat slightly waffled polyester. Cap 4 is Polartec Power Dry Grid which is smooth on the outside with 1/16" square X 1/16" tall grid squares on the inside. The result is a MUCH (IME) warmer piece with similar compressability and weight (hence the similor oz. per yard numbers). Also I feel the Power Dry is a superior product to capiline.

The new Cap 4 is a fancy version of the old R.5 top. The new 4 has a chest pocket and anatomically cut sleeves and body. All crappy worthless updates that increased the weight of the item and bulk.

Women's R.5 tops are widely avail. on the web for closeout prices, so your daughter's size might be out there for $30 instead of $75.

Edited by jhaura on 10/10/2006 10:01:56 MDT.

Tom Clark
(TomClark) - MLife

Locale: East Coast
2 is better than one on 10/10/2006 11:11:32 MDT Print View

Why not buy two cheaper/lighterweight tops? It might be warmer than the heavier top due to the heavier combined weight and the trapped air between the layers. It would definitely provide more flexibility.

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
Patagonia outlet stores in Japan on 10/10/2006 12:07:10 MDT Print View

Miguel---there are 2 Patagonia outlet store in Japan. Osaka environs.
http://www.patagonia.com/web/jp/patagonia.go?assetid=6553

and Sapporo---if you venture that far North.
http://www.patagonia.com/web/jp/patagonia.go?assetid=6554

hope that helps.
KD

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: Patagonia outlet stores in Japan on 10/10/2006 17:37:16 MDT Print View

Thanks, Kevin, for making the effort to look for that info. Unfortunately both places are a long way off (though I would give a lot to be up in Hokkaido right now!). I'll check to see if it's possible to mail order from them. If so, these are great leads! Thanks again.

abdon gonzalez
(abdon@sillypages.com) - F

Locale: Misawa, Japan
Thanks on 10/11/2006 00:07:15 MDT Print View

Dane, Jhaura, thanks for the r.5 info. Also thanks for the explanation on the 3 vs. the 4. Now it makes a bit more sense.

I have been thinking about two small inner layers instead of a big one, but the Capilene 4 is not bulky at all. Me, I would not spend my money on it, but this is an 8 years old that I plan on taking backcountry where most people would not dare to thread.

When Patagonia says "recycled", are they talking post consumer recycled or plain old recycled fibers? If it is not post consumer, it means nothing.

And Miguel, Where I am is pretty far up north but I don’t think it gets insanely cold up here. Temperatures rarely go bellow 20F during the day. Then again they rarely go above 30F. By most standards that is not particularly harsh, but then the winters wants to last forever, and so does the accumulated snow. This is in the low lands by the Pacific Ocean. Up in the mountains and to the coast of the Japan Sea gets a bit harsher. If you are into snowboarding, skiing, or just want to snowshoe the Hakoda volcano ridge, by all means let me know. It would not be an imposition; I’m always looking for an excuse to go :)

Edited by abdon@sillypages.com on 10/11/2006 00:08:59 MDT.