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Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
C-3 Tape Source on 02/26/2011 19:24:49 MST Print View

Is this the same c-3 tape that people are using for cuben fiber fabric? If so it looks like a good price per yard compared to what I've seen elsewhere.

Daryl

Tape

Brian Austin
(footeab) - F

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: C-3 Tape Source on 02/26/2011 20:58:03 MST Print View

I note that tape is made for nylon adhesion not mylar which is the laminate face of cuben fabric.

Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Re: C-3 Tape Source on 02/27/2011 08:48:11 MST Print View

Darryl,
Im not sure if that is the same stuff I have been using, but here is the link to the C3 tape I have been using.

http://www.sailrite.com/Seamstick-1-2-C3-Spinnaker-Tape-55-Yds

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
C3 Tape on 02/27/2011 09:40:39 MST Print View

Steven,

Thanks for the link. Looks like the same stuff but why risk it with expensive cuben fabric. I'll order from your link when I get geared up to try my first cuben project.

Thanks,

Daryl

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
C-3 tape on 02/27/2011 21:49:45 MST Print View

Thanks for persuading me to finally get into using tape. The video on the Sailrite site is what did it. Showed that the adhesive film left by the peeled off portion of the tape is probably of negligible weight. Also liked that it interferes less with the natural stretch of the fabric (nylon, not Cuben) than sewing.

Since this stuff works on "zero-porosity" nylon spinaker, wonder if it would work on silnylon, or silnylon to Cuben. Much neater than clamping glue layups on silnylon OR Cuben. Will order some and find out.

Also wonder if it will set in the colder temp of my basement workshop when not in use. Will find that out also. Worst case, will use it on an all-Cuben project.

Brian Austin
(footeab) - F

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: C-3 tape on 02/27/2011 22:52:16 MST Print View

Got a question. Have you tried this tape adhesion properties at say -20F? I have read that some types of tape folks have been using on Cuben will lose adhesion at these temperatures.

The C3 tape does it do so? Thanks for any replies. Otherwise will go back and hunt down the more expensive tape.

Konrad .
(Konrad1013) - MLife
Good question on 02/27/2011 23:02:12 MST Print View

Great question Brian. I recently used a cuben fiber drybag by Lawson (mountainfitter) on a trip where temps were around 5-10F. He had bonded his logo onto the dry bag with some form of adhesive tape. During the trip, the tape froze, and the logos fell off. However, when it got back up to room temperature, the tapes tackiness kicked back in...grabbing all lint/dirt in sight :/

Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Re: Re: C-3 tape on 02/28/2011 10:25:22 MST Print View

Brian,
Interesting, I know temperature (either very high or very low) can affect the tape/adhesive but I haven't experienced it yet. I taped my winter shelter with Venture and C-3 tape and am problem free. I don't have many nights on it but it appears to be holding up very well. It hasn't seen -20*F, but probably close to 0*F on my last trip. Maybe it wasn't cold enough...

here's the link to some pictures if you're interested.

http://www.suluk46.com/RandD%20-%20RD25%20Cuben%20Fiber%20Winter%20Shelter.html

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Thanks Steven on 02/28/2011 12:23:08 MST Print View

Steven,

I found your tent photos and info very helpful. You've tried several things that appeal to me.

I have considered but not yet tried the breathable sections like you have incorporated in your tent. My thoughts, like yours, are that it would reduce condensation. What's your impression so far?

Thanks for the adhesive testing. Looks like two tapes and two adhesives if I understand things correctly. Did you prefer either of the adhesives (Hysol and Lepages) over the other?

I've been making tents similar to yours for about 40 years. I first saw one similar to yours in a sportshop in Vancouver, Canada and that's what got me going. I see you are from Canada.

I too quickly went from 1 pole to 2 in my tinkering. Lot of benefit for the weight. I went one step further, however, by adding a cross piece to the top. The advantages I've found by doing so are:

(1) It allows me to bow the vertical poles slightly which makes them more stable under load. It is like I've chosen the direction they will bend so they don't wobble in any other direction
(2) The top pole also bows a bit so it allows me to eliminate the catenary cut on the top of the tent. I use a straight seam on the top of the tent and the bowed top pole takes up any slack within the fabric.

Heres a link to the posting for this tent:

Tent

Brian Austin
(footeab) - F

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Thanks Steven on 02/28/2011 16:24:07 MST Print View

Thanks for the feedback.

I do know that Skurka stitched his seam lines together and then taped. So, theoretically I suppose you could say that the stitching is taking the load before the tape as the tape was applied after the stitching.

I also know that on model aircraft, one uses a heat activated sealable adhesive with mylar to mylar adhesion. I know it is good down to -20F and below, but its not the same adhesive being used on the C3 tape as that adhesive requires a heat gun/iron and 250F to apply. So obtaining a good bond is quite possible with mylar. All I gotta do is remember many of my experiences molding and not waxing the mylar surface well enough to know that! I was just wondering once again if anyone out there has used tape only at -20-40 range as this is pretty much the coldest it ever gets and personally I never want to experience those temps though in the mountains and being high...

I think I might try some of my RC mylar adhesive glue but my cold chamber isn't working and will only go down to 0F instead of -80F like it used to, not to mention having everything in a tape form is so much nicer along with no need for an iron. An iron on Cuben mylar faced fabric will shrink it as well.

I would really love to not get the opportunity to use the sewing machine!

PS. WHY on earth does everyone make ROUND stuff sacks? Roll top closuers work better on a square sack as well. Not draw string of course, but roll top dry bag is far better with a square sack. Its just as easy to stitch a square as a circle, or nearly so. Is food round? NO! Are clothes ROUND? NO! IS ANYTHING other than a sleeping bag round? NO! Pots don't count... even they should be rectangular so as to pack nicer.

Cheers

Edited by footeab on 02/28/2011 16:30:12 MST.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: C3 Tape on 02/28/2011 20:44:01 MST Print View

Me, I suspect it is a good acrylic adhesive which will bond very well after a couple of days. Yes, it needs curing time.

I also suspect it is a 'transfer adhesive' - one without a carrier film. Good stuff for very light fabrics.

No, an acrylic adhesive will NOT bond to silnylon or silicone-treated surfaces.

Cheers

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
square stuffsacks on 03/01/2011 20:54:18 MST Print View

Brian,

This article shows how to make square stuffsacks:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/make_your_own_gear_5_yards_to_sul_part_2.html

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
"C-3 Tape Source" on 03/07/2011 20:26:40 MST Print View

Roger,
You are right again.
No luck on silnylon, even with a flat finish, or even on PU coated nylon with a DWR finish opposite.
Seemed a tad on the heavy side, also. Will use VERY thin undiluted SilNet, as that is the most adhesive I've found (moreso than Permatex), and try to get away with rolling with a roller, but not clamping.
The roller was your suggestion also.
I think it will be a diamond stitch from my sewing machine manual on the seams I want to expand with the fabric, as that stitch worked well on lycra, so it ought to work on anything. Glad there was a thread on how not to get the needle gummed up; but if it does, well, then back to the tiny pins, and pulling them out as the fabric goes through the feeder.
Rome wasn't built in a day.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: "C-3 Tape Source" on 03/07/2011 23:05:24 MST Print View

Hi Sam

> Rome wasn't built in a day.
But I wasn't managing that project ... :-)

Cheers
(sorry!)

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: "C-3 Tape Source" on 03/08/2011 06:55:23 MST Print View

you guys know of a quality tape that is 5/8-1" wide with only single side adhesive? i have been using the mylar tape from quest but at over $60 a roll i am not happy with the cost. Also am worried about the performance in the cold but it isn't cold enough here to test that anymore. (if only i would have thought about it just a few weeks back) Weight penalty of this tape is minimal. I made the new proto epiphany in .48 and it weighed in at 14.3oz compared to one of the same size made with .33 in the old style at 12.9oz. The new one uses more down (.83oz for 10% over fill) so that leaves .57 weight added to the quilt, but i am now making an inflation bag attached to the quilt so that accounts for at lot of that weight, and the use of heavier fabric. so an addition of under .3oz from the tapping of the baffles to both the shell and liner of the quilt, something like 350" of baffles.

-Tim

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Tim Tape Question on 03/08/2011 16:58:58 MST Print View

Tim,

I've had good luck with adhesive backed insignia cloth. Here's a link:

tape

It comes in fabric sheet size and 2" rolls so you would have to cut it to meet your needs. It weighs about 3 ounces per square yard.

I've used it on foam, shoulder pads, waist belts and knee pads and it hasn't let go on any of them. I've even run it through the washer a few times.

(By the way, did you notice that I did some experimenting with the insultex? I didn't think too much of it but had good luck with 1/8" foam.)

Daryl

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Tim Tape Question on 03/08/2011 19:25:12 MST Print View

that stuff is way too burly for what i'm doing. I don't need much strength at all. looking for lightest weight, better price and cold weather adhesion. Might just use the C3 double sided linked at the top, but single side is what i have been using and i like it.

Sorry the IX didn't work out for you. I have made some stuff with it but haven't got to test it much.

-Tim

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
"C-3 Tape Source" on 03/08/2011 22:59:30 MST Print View

Roger:

Re: > Rome wasn't built in a day.
But I wasn't managing that project ... :-)

Do you know the fable of the hare and the tortoise.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: "C-3 Tape Source" on 03/09/2011 03:56:54 MST Print View

Hi Tim

Contact 3M or Husky or Scapa or any of the big tape makers. Cut out the chain of middlemen.

Cheers

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: Re: Re: "C-3 Tape Source" on 03/09/2011 07:26:07 MST Print View

Man Roger that seems like what an adult would do, not sure i'm ready for all that.

-Tim