Greg, Are you hiking the PCT or JMT this year? Are you from Atlanta? If so, have you hiked or ran any with B. Turner "Phreak"? I hiked with him last year on the JMT. Just curious. FYIW, I agree on the reasoning for allowing the PCT'ers a 'pass' on tha bear can in the Rae Lakes area. They are usually going thru in Late May - June when the JMT'ers tend to pack it out from July on to Sept.

Hiking the PCT and I'm from Canton, just north of ATL. Yes, I ran into Phreak on the AT in NC, expect to see him out on one of my training hikes on the AT prior to leaving.

Tell him 'Hobbles' said hi, he'll know who you are talking about! Thanks.

Carry on with the Ursack debate....

Greg -

What I remember about the post office down in Independence is that it (a) closes early and (b) weren't too fond of the thru-hikers as all of their supply boxes quickly overwhelms their post office. Can't say I blame them much.

I resupplied there as well - it's really a lovely hike just to go out at that pass - I thought the lakes were beautiful.

Thanks again for the info - interesting to hear how things have changed. Must admit that I recall the days on the trail fondly - probably more so in retrospect than on many of the days on it.

Dirk

The Ursack S29 All White 8 ounces volume 650 cu inches
Bear Vault 500 41 ounces volume 700 cu inches
Garcia Backpackers cache 44 ounces volume 615 cu inches
Bearikade expedition MK2 37 ounces volume 900 cu inches
Counter assault bear Keg 49 ounces volume 716 cu inches

Even with the aluminum liner at 10.8 ounces the Ursack all white S29
for a total weight of 18.8 ounces... Slam dunk.
I hope they get approved. So long as they have a reasonable success record
and it gets more people to use them thats a good thing.
Having crammed a Bear vault 500 into my Go Lite Pinnacle for the PCT
believe me.. i would so love to use an ursack!

However, there are other containers that are smaller in volume that are moderately lightweight.

--B.G.--

Sure, but space to weight ratio Ursack is a winner.

Some of us do most of our trips in three or four days, and we don't need the higher volume, so light weight and low cost are helpful.

From the court case, it appears that none of these solutions are 100% foolproof.

--B.G.--

"Why couldn't a JMT hiker get permits for both JMT and PCT? Then, when confronted by a ranger, you could show one permit or the other, just depending on what was to your advantage for that particular place."

Because you must be hiking 500 or more miles to qualify for a PCT permit, and the JMT is only around 211 miles if I remember correctly. And if you are able to get the PCT permit, there is no reason to bother with the (generally much harder to get) JMT permit, unless you wanted to do the section of the JMT that doesn't overlap with the PCT.

Thats interesting.. I thought that aside from one bear managing to get into a BV500 , that all the approved canisters were 100% successful. I thought the failures were always due to human error.
Where is that court case? I would like to read that stuff.

Thanks Bob.

Edited by Ice-axe on 02/20/2011 23:19:15 MST.

See the top of this thread for the court case.

I think that there are many incidents where the bears got the food. Some involve a failure of the canister (like, the latch broke) or a failure of the human operator to close it correctly. It some cases, the bears got the food due to persistence and intelligence, but those are few. I think for the vast majority of the cases where the bears got the food, there was no canister or Ursack or anything. Some people try to rely on bear-bagging. That can be effective in some areas where the bears are not smart, but I think the bears are getting smarter overall. Either that or the humans are getting lazier.

--B.G.--

"Either that or the humans are getting lazier."

+1

...but, lazy from the very beginning.

We would have no "smart bears" if they were never "trained".

Our Sierra Club group backpacked from Kennedy Meadows to Olancha Peak without bear canisters. But we always hung our food properly to keep it from rodents.

However north of Olancha Peak bear canisters are STILL required, on and off the PCT.

I have a Garcia canister. Yeah, heavy and ya can't see thru the sides but until bears lern to use screwdrivers or the washer on a string I have taped to my canister I think the Garcia canisters are still the safest ones going.

I just found a court proceeding interesting. Crazy.

Sounds like the judges could go either way. When will they make their decision?

Probably by June.