Companion forum thread to:

Winter ISPO 2011: Day 1 - International Delights

I have a Sir Joseph Koteka Down Jacket, and am not liking it heaps. Yes, the weight is good, but the zipper and the hood are not very well build. I need on average about three minutes to get the zipper closed, that is annoying if you're at home but not acceptable when making a break on a windswept lake at -20°C.

Hendrik - let us know what year your jacket was made. We had no problems using the zippers at their exhibit, so maybe the newer models have addessed this issue. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

The Shawan jacket certainly looks interesting, especially at that price point.

Any idea how their waterproof fabric compares to eVent, Neoshell, or GoreTex Active Shell?

Will we be able to get this jacket in the US?

An excellent addition to BPL's coverage, great write up!

That shovel/ice combo sure is interesting. It looks like one of the few lightweight shovels that can be kicked into the snow.

Since this is in Munich, will there also be a report on the beer halls?

Danny, it is the current edition of the jacket. Don't get me even started on the hood... All in all, quite disappointing, especially if you consider that it is a whopping 270€. Lets hope they get the new version right.

14 oz cheapo rain jacket without pit zips ... $750 neoshell jackets ... $3000 down jackets ....

i actually believe that a separate ice axe and shovel may weight about the same as that fancy gizmo ...

gimmicky IMO

Eric, I'd like see that combo. There are some that come very close, but the top of the blade is rounded, so you can forget about using your heel to drive the shovel into the snow. Even if the weight wasn't so competitive, I'd like not having a handle swinging around on the back of my pack.

corsa nano ... 250g ... note that it is a longer axe at 60 cm vs 45 cm ... so itll likely be a tad more useful

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442621275&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302691717


voile XLM shovel 450g ....

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442423651&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302725879

total 700g .... you can say that the fancy gizmo has a wider shovel ... but then the corsa has steel reinforcement and is a longer axe ... my view is that if you were serious about a "real shovel" anyways you wouldnt be using one with a 45 cm shaft length ... youd get one with a real extension, stomping on one with a short extension aint fun unless yr the hunchback of notredame ... price is roughly around the same

also less faff to deal with with 2 separate tools ... always a consideration when wearing gloves in cold temps

Edited by bearbreeder on 02/07/2011 11:11:11 MST.

I do agree that 45 cm is short for an ice axe. I'd still like to try it out though. I'm trying to find out if the head of the axe is aluminum or steel. The axe only weighs 195 grams, so chances are that it's aluminum...not good. I probably would have gone with the steel axe anyway, and that version comes in a 55 cm length which I'm already comfortable with as an axe.

Whether this combo is good or bad as is, it's an idea that I hope they refine.

Jeff - We'll ask Milo about purchases from the US. We're asking that question of all companies on Days 2-4.

Both Milo and Gelanots say that the fabric is 20,000 mm/h2o and 20,000 g/m^2/24h. I believe this puts it on par with standard Gore-Tex. I will look into this more.

There is another company or two at ISPO that use Gelanots, and we are meeting with them in the next two days. We'll let you know what we find. In the meantime, someone from the BPL community may chime in with more info.

Devin - Thanks!

Eugene/Eric - Yes, there may be a slightly lighter separate ax and shovel on the market, but the idea behind the combination was the novelty here. Maybe someone at BPL will see this and make a better, lighter version. Several of the things that we report on are good ideas, but not necessarily ultralight. Who knows what this community can do with it!

Dwight - Alas, no. Unless you can convince Addie that we need to stay an extra day here . . .

I like the looks of those mitts. Very clever design, with the whole in the middle. The other mitts sound great as well. I would like to hear more about that company, if those mitts are typical of what they make.

danny ,,,

grivel i believe makes a shovel blade that can go on an axe as well ... the problem with that one is that the blade isnt much if any lighter than a small alum shovel ...

id love to have a good alum blade that can fit on an ice axe that weights no more than 300g ...

eider down was wat was in the jackets that went to the top of annapurna in 1950...

Ross, CAMP is from Italy but they have a US Distributor, http://www.camp-usa.com/ is the website. They make excellent gear of the highest quality, and if you're into fast & light climbing and mountaineering you won't get around using their stuff. Of course it works fine for backpacking as well =)

A good place hunt for reviews of stuff using Gelanots is the Kamleika stuff that OMM have done in England for a little bit now.

cf this review (of an updated model): http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/reviews/jackets/shell-jackets---waterproof/original-mountain-marathon-kamleika-race-jacket/review/36531.html

I'd be a bit surprised if there weren't also sundry other impressions/reviews about the place.

Eric - The Milo Shawar does have pit zips. We forgot that detail among the plethora of other features on the jacket.

Jeff - Milo products are currently available in 30 countries, but not the UK and US. Milo is rebuilding their website and it should be up and running by the end of February. Check their website and maybe you can find a distributor that would ship internationally.

Ross - Hendrik's assessment of CAMP is spot on. CAMP is an excellent company that is pushing into the US market with their lightest equipment and clothing. About half of their products can currently be bought in the US, from companies like ProLite Gear. BPL is working on getting some CAMP equipment and clothing for reviews.

SkiTrab is another Italian company that has similar mitts, and there are probably others, as the ski racing culture here is very strong.

Martin - We're trying to track down OMM at the show. They don't have a booth, but their reps are here wandering the halls. We are keen to take a look at the Kamleika Race Smock. Stay tuned for more . . .

Does anyone have a source for this jacket in the states yet? Thanks.