I am one of the people that have sung the praises of my Kooka Bay down pad (and no, I did not get it free or discounted).

I feel for the OP and agree that he should feel free to share his experiences here. But having waited longer than I expected for four custom quilts, waiting for my pad did not upset me too much. I consider it part of the process. I waited on a few of my Tarptents too.

I think that communication is the key to this problem. It is hard to tell somebody, “sorry I am running behind”. But doing that (and even returning their money) is better than gathering ill-will that will get blown out of proportion like is happening here. Two people having a problem does not make me avoid trying a good product. Yet we have posters running away. I don’t get that. But I do understand getting peeved about poor communication.

I just got back from a trip on the North Country Trail in Chippewa National Forest where I used my Kooka Bay with a Nunatak Arc Expedition. It got down to 10 F and I was very comfortable on my pad.

I emailed Bender as well 2 weeks ago with no response.
Instead, I bought a ridgerest to go with my neoair as a compromise since I am still interested in a kooka bay pad but I ll be waiting on the sideline til things clear up ( or get a little less busy after the winter season so that he ll have more time and better concentrate on his craftsmanship).

Communication is key though.

I ordered a pad early in January. I let Bender know that I needed it for a trip mid February. He said he would have it to me in time. I have not heard anything lately, and I emailed him on Friday to ask about the status and have not heard anything. I am really excited to get this product, and I REALLY want this pad on the trip I will be taking (its going to be cold, and my zlite will not cut it.) I hope to be able to give a positive review for bender and his product here soon.

Edit - RP

Edited by rp3957 on 02/20/2011 21:23:06 MST.

Joey, agree you need a backup plan. I don't know where you're going but I was recently very comfortable at 20F in a tent with 1/8" thinlight + 3/4 length thermarest + 6-section cutdown ZLite. I'd been considering a Kooka mattress to reduce the carry weight and volume, but I've decided to wait until the SOTM report comes out and then buy a winter pad well before the next busy season. I hope KB and other cottage outfits are included in the SOTM.

Will

I need to put in a +1 for Bender. About 4 months ago I had him make me an inflatable tube that I can place under my knees to reduce my back pains while sleeping. I sent him a sketch and I kid you not....he emailed me the next day saying it was done and in the mail. Seriously!

It sounds like he's become way to popular and needs some help or simply needs to start saying no.

I am going to pick up a Big Agnes Insulated Air Core at REI before I go if I have not received the pad from Bender by then. I can always return to REI or sell it here. I have not given up hope for the Kooka pad though, still have about 10 days before my trip.

I am another that "sung early and often" concerning the praise of the product. While delays and long wait times may be the norm for the cottage industry, communication should be better maintained to avoid the bad PR.

I am sure that Bender has grown weary of being inundated with questions that have taken away from production time, but most of these "how much would this option weigh and cost?" types of questions could be answered with a better website.

Bender has a great product and ability to innovate. He just may need a bit of help on the business side. I for one hope that he can work through these growing pains, quit his day job and make boatloads of money.

I ordered a pad from Bender last September. It was delivered on time and he responded to my emails within a day or so. A 3/4 length R4 pad weighing in at 10.4oz is amazing!

I am a happy customer. I hope to have another pad in the future.

I have no problem waiting several months if needed for custom gear, however communication is extremely important.

I am also a happy customer of Kooka Bay, and report that Bender went out of his way to supply me with my product (a larger-sized pillow) before the holidays.

I am concerned that some of these posts serve to unfairly stigmatize Bender when they say that their views are based on lots of anonymous PM's supporting a negative view. Thank you to those who have spoken forthrightly, and directly as to their experiences with Kooka Bay. I feel that this is a better way to discuss the business.

I have been following this thread and I have a comment. I can understand others frustration with not getting product on time, not getting reliable returns on emails etc. But we need to step back and let Bender reply to this thread. We really do not know what is going on with Kooka Bay. In no way am I siding on there side, but to tar and feather someone without letting them have the right to reply is kinda bad. There is a big difference between Kooka Bay and Big Sky Intl. Just my 2 cents....now back to your regularly scheduled program.................

Edited by kennyhel77 on 02/07/2011 15:40:34 MST.

"Now the real issues began. I ordered and paid for the pad listed above and he sent me a chart prior to my order showing all the different pads he could make, their weights, and their cost.

My pad came in on the chart at 24.8 oz and r9 and 900 FP down.

What I received was a 29 oz pad with NOT 900 FP down in it ( he later admited this to me in an email to settle the paypal dispute although to be fair he claimed that was an accident) he had another pad listed at 27 oz"


this is far from "being overworked" or "growing pains". if that's what you call it, then we have some different understandings of the english language.

@Josh

What is your understanding of "troll"? You have done little else in the past few days but to pour it on thick several times in this thread. I could understand if you were ever a customer, but that's not the case is it? If you had read the first post, you would have understood that this was closed deal after the first refund. I don't know why Mark took so long to actually use his pad to discover a leak. He made a mistake, fixed it, and then fixed it again. Other than that mistake among many good experiences, he sucks at communication and delivering promptly. That's hardly a reason for a non-customer to troll a thread this hard. And yes, I have been a Kooka Bay customer and plan to be one again.

Edited by leaftye on 02/07/2011 18:12:14 MST.

I purchased a pad from Bender sometime mid January and he gave me a two-week window of when he was going to complete it. Obviously it's been a little more than that, but I don't mind.

The man obviously has to be busy, from what it sounds like on this thread. I mean, there have been six or seven orders mentioned in this thread alone, placed within the last month and a half. Making these pads isn't a simple task, even for somebody who has done it multiple times before, I'm sure.

When I first emailed Bender, it took him a couple days to respond, but when he did, he answered all my questions and clarified everything for me. I placed the order and I've just been sitting patiently like a good boy waiting for my present to arrive in the mail, lol.

I had an experience on the gear swap forums one time where I purchased something from somebody, and never got an email or pm about shipping, never received product, etc. I thought the guy took my money and ran (and so did a few others on the site who had also purchased something from him). Well, I posted something on his forum publicly asking him to respond, and I caught hell from other BPL members for not "chilling out" and giving him more time.

Turns out, they were right. He had suffered a medical emergency and was in the hospital, his wife emailed us and sent out our packages. I have that email saved in my inbox with a star on it to remind me to be more patient and let people do what they need to do :)

I think all of us waiting would benefit from this same knowledge. Do what you've got to do Bender, and perhaps look into hiring somebody as so many of the people here have suggested (that is, if you have the funds).

Hope this helps!

An open apology

First, allow me to apologize to all of my customers who didn't get their pads when promised, or through some error on my part didn't get the pad they ordered, or who simply wanted an update that I didn't give.

I value the business I've received from each and every one of you, and you were right to be upset. I dropped the ball.

But please know that it was never my intention to keep you in the dark or let you down in any way. I simply wanted to make great gear for the greatest group of people I know. I didn't want to say no to anyone, and that caused me to take on more work than I should have, or to be more optimistic in how soon I could fulfill those orders than I should have been.

Growing a business can be overwhelming, and you learn something new every day. Sometimes those lessons are a bit painful, as this has been. But I can assure you it's not a lesson I'll soon forget.

My commitment to make great gear for anyone who will benefit from it has never wavered, and that commitment is still what drives me today. But let me also recommit to doing a better job of keeping you informed when your pad or pillow will be delayed. I understand that doing so is not only good business, it's what you, as my customers, rightly deserve.

Thank you for the privilege of allowing me to make and sell my gear to you, thank you for your enthusiasm for my gear, and thank you for your patience through a difficult time.

Bender

I had promised myself that I would not post again on this thread. It seems some of you have either exaggerated my position or misconstrued it.

Let me just say this. I have owned and operated a business for 25 years. I have way to often made mistakes. I am positive I will continue to make them. I have on more than one occasion told an employee that making mistakes is part of the learning process, its what you do after you discovered the mistake that sets you apart.

Bender has done an admirable job in making this right, and I appreciate it.

Thank you,

I for one am always up for giving someone a second chance and the benefit of the doubt. I hope that future pad buyers will give Bender another chance to make them a pad, and that they will get better communication in return.

Let's all just makeup and go back to obsessing over gear geek stuff and arguing about how much better a tarp is if it weighs 1.25 oz less than another one.

you call it "a mistake"

i call it being "dishonest"

your opinion on this matter matters just as much as mine does. no more, no less

This community is an invaluable resource. We help and support one another. Part of that help may be to offer warning when warranted. But it can also be to offer that helpful support and advice. I think that by and large the comments, complaints and observations on this thread have been useful, helpful and constructive to a point. Bender has been a constructive member of this community and while that doesn't make Kooka Bay immune to criticism I think he's due the benefit of the doubt and an effort to be helpful. A lot of reliable, experienced and regular members of this community have had positive experiences with his products and offered support. I plan to order a DAM very soon and I don't really give a DAM when it's finished as long as it's done properly and to spec and I don't doubt it will be. As this thread points out or proves Bender as hit some probably inevitable bumps in the road and hit 'em pretty hard. I expect if he can figure out how to make those pads he can figure out how to ramp up the website which will probably cut down on the email traffic, and allow him to improve the communication and how to get a handle on his production scheduling within parameters/limits or call a "time-Out" when he has to. It's part of the learning curve.

I learned to my amazement about 40 years ago (can't believe I'm getting old enough to talk about waiting tables 40 years ago!) anyway I learned that when the damned hostess dropped a couple of 8 tops on me at the same time while I had 3 other very busy tables going that I could walk right up to those 16 people and say I was sorry but I just couldn't wait on 'em right then. I had orders coming up for these other 3 tables and they'd just have to wait until I could get those other tables served. I expected to be able to get to them in about X minutes and etc. To my great surprise they didn't object to this at all and I made sure I was good on my word. That's when I realized that what people really want is a reliable schedule. Reliability is way more important and valuable than speed.

I'm a really slow typist and started the above about 2 hours ago. After posting it of course I now have seen the posts by Mark and Bender. You guys have really done yourselves proud. Could not have been better said.

Edited by obxcola on 02/07/2011 19:37:36 MST.

Bender, Thanks for the open apology posting. That was appreciated. If things slow down and you get up-to-speed on production, is there any way to post that either here or on your website? I think there are people that KNOW you make a great product, but don't quite have the time it currently takes for a pad, may want to get one at a later date. One other suggestion, is there a way to postpone charging a persons credit card via PayPal until it gets closer to the actual shipping time. For me, that would have made a big difference. Once again, Thanks, and good luck in the future.