Cool! Going directly.

Javen,

Very interested in how it goes as i was planning to use it for both the inner and outer layer when i first contacted them. I am very hesitant though as i suspect the vapor will pass the inner layer fine but not pass the out layer as well as it is farther from your body heat and closer to the cold which could cause it to condense and freeze. This used to happen with epic shelled bags and breathable liners which should have passed vapor way better than this stuff can (as Epic isn't fully waterproof i am assuming it breathes better, also the addition of breathable liner should allow the shell of epic to breath better as heat would pass to it easier). I did consider using the WPB for the shell and the regular stuff for the liner to keep the quilt VB but give the shell a way to breathe while still being waterproof but the added weight of the coating has deterred me away in favor of the simple stripe solution.

-Tim

Is this WP/B laminate on the cuben the same stuff (teflon) as used in Gore/eVent products? If so,
unless it is also coated with a PU layer like Goretex, or one of Cubic's mylar films,
it should be comparable to eVent at vapor transmission rates.


Also, I don't buy that Epic treated fabrics cause more condensation that other DWR treatments. I think people who have experienced condensation when using such fabrics
would have also had the same experience, all other things equal, if they had used
Momentum, etc.

David,

It is a very similar layer of ptfe like event or gore, the NF series is just spectra laminated with ptfe on one side, and the non-NF series has ptfe on both sides of the spectra core. I don't believe it's coated, breathability seems quite good.


I was given some MVTR and HH numbers, they didn't look like the ones eVent and Gore use, but I have no idea what testing model they used, and I'm guessing they haven't learned to fabricate insane lab-world numbers yet.

Who knows, seems very good to me so far, but I've only had a chance to use it in weather where all of them perform decently. We'll see how it holds up as spring rolls around.

You guys are gonna get a kick out of this. I was exchanging some e-mails with Cubic Tech and they saw the pics of this jacket. Anyway, he asked me if I removed the protective liner from the fabric..and I'm like "Huh?". Yeah, so I peeled off a thin plastic layer that comes stuck to the colored side and guess what - it weighs almost as much as the fabric itself. New weight of this rain jacket is 80 grams (2.8 oz). I'm so hyped!

Haha Steven, yeah man, I should have mentioned that. I had a similar snafu when mine arrived.



Breathability probably seems much better now also right? Helps not having a thick layer of mylar creating a VB. ;)

>New weight of this rain jacket is 80 grams (2.8 oz).

Thats just reeeeediculous. Nice work! Puts my 6.5 ounce Marmot Essence to shame.

So is the PTFE being used here just regular old PTFE? Like the same stuff used in the original Gore-Tex until Gore discovered that body oils ruined the waterproofness and thus it needs to be protected by the PU layers they new use? Or is it a modifed PTFE like eVENT that can withstand these oils?

Hi Steve,

Great looking jacket!

It has been bucketing down here, which has made me start to think about waterproofs again. Have you had any luck testing this jacket yet?

I admit, I'm replying just so I can keep tabs on this thread.
I'm really excited about this. A 2.8oz rain jacket!
I imagine it would also serve as a wind breaker? Houdini + Emergency poncho = 6.3oz > 2.8oz! At this weight you could even make it trench coat length and nix the rain pants as well.

Any word on it's abrasion resistance, like being worn under a pack all day? How about it being used on the foot box of quilts? OH, I see someone's already done that. How's it working out so far?

Edited by stingray4540 on 03/24/2011 17:02:39 MDT.

Ha, I was just about to ask about this. With the recent fiasco about the waterproofness of regular cuben, I'm extra curious about how this stuff is performing.

Hey Guys,
My apologies for not updating this thread...but I don't have any field experience yet. I've haven't been out in the woods since I made it - just a bit busy. I do have a 5 day trip planned around the May long weekend but nothing in the plans for in between so it looks like we may have to wait until then. If I do get a chance to test it out I will be sure to keep you guys posted. I should probably send a sample over to Richard Nisley as I have quite a few scraps left over.

It has a reported 9,000 mm HH

@Steve - thanks for the update. A humble idea: How about going for a jog during a rain-storm in the jacket with a warm-up and wind-down walk to see the build-up and dissipation of internal moisture. You could also set it up out side with a hanger on a clothesline. Use paper towels draped over the hanger to determine moisture penetration, checking periodically. Of course, you would have to seal the neck up :)

But I can certainly understand that you may be too busy to do that as well. Cheers!

p.s. I ordered one of TrailLite Designs' CloudCapes from Joe at Zpacks customized in .5 oz. Cuben that should come in under 2 oz. - it will be interesting to compare the performance with your breathable jacket. I also had it modified to have draw-string sleeves for potential use as a component in a winter VB system.

Edited by biointegra on 03/24/2011 21:45:59 MDT.

I'm still at a loss as to how WPB cuben is supposed to work. Since it has a PFTE membrane, the face fabric has to be something breathable- unlike regular cuben. Is the cuben perforated, or perhaps just the mylar layer? Or does it use something other than mylar covering the Spectra threads on the rain-facing bit? It just doesn't compute. Can't wait until we all know more!

Can you breathe through it, like eVent?

Edited by areichow on 03/31/2011 10:34:40 MDT.

Bumping this thread as it's now mid-may.... hoping you got out to try the jacket out a bit.

Aaron, yes, you can breath through it. I am getting bivy's made with the lightest version they have available right now. Should be done in the next couple of weeks and up on the site.

Bryce, I am leaving on a 5 day trip this thursday and rain is definitely in the forecast - will most definitely update this post upon my return.

So, does anybody actually know how this stuff works? Is it definitely ePTFE? Is it definitely breathable? Is it definitely waterproof?

If you can get a breath through it and it is waterproof it must be a microporous membrane of some sort without a monolithic layer, either ePTFE or microporous PU. Perhaps laminated to some sort of non-Waterproof Cuben for strength?

Jeremy, with all due respect, I think you should read the posts in this thread rather than asking someone to summarize them for you. Steve and Javan have explained the components of the WPB cuben in detail.

How did your trip go?