General go-anywhere/ 3-season gear-list almost complete
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HK Newman
(hknewman) - MLife

Locale: Western US
General go-anywhere/ 3-season gear-list almost complete on 01/24/2011 21:13:10 MST Print View

Any improvements for my "go-anywhere in 3-season conditions" gear-list below?

This is my current "3-season" gear list for carried items for a wide range of locations (Spring/Fall = desert SW, Summer = southern Rockies, and Winter = coastal California). Also looking at using the same pack for extended days on snowtrips. I actually looked at some gear lists from BPL Northwest trip reports as my gear needs to handle cool and wet conditions (if it's hot where I live, I head to the mountains at about 12,000 ft). All weights in oz and some items discontinued (been paring down the weight since my Mountainsmith Auspex days back in 2000).

Not counting variables such as food, carried water, or fuel, which are pretty heavy.

Pack Osprey "Exos 46" 41
Cover Granite Gear (Sil) 3
Rainshell Pata - Jetstream 10.5
Insulation Pata - R1 Hoody 12.1
Shelter BA Fly Ck 1 (w/stakes) 37
LJ's dry Pata 1's for sleep 10
Stove Snowpeak 1.9
Pot Evernew 0.9L 4.93
Knife Benchmade"530" 1.6
Spork Plastic 1
Compass Suntoo 0.95
Lighter Lighter (small) 1
Ditty bag Sea-to-Summit (Sil) 1.3
Sleeping Pad Prolite 3 (short) 11
Sleeping bag WM Megalight (30F) 33
Gloves, etc 200 wt fleece gloves 3
Gloves, etc MH WB glove shells 4
Water treatment AquaMira 3
Head Buff 1.2
= oz 181.48
(or 11.5 lbs)

Note 1) Worn is typically a Patagonia 1 short-sleeve, Patagonia Gi II pants, REI Coolmax socks, TNF Hedgehog trailrunners, synthetic briefs, liner gloves, and an Adias "AC" baseball-style hat. Changing my worn clothing, again using PNW gear lists as a guide but not ready to weigh.
Any improvements?

Note 2) If under serious sun exposure, dry-camping, or winter camping, I'd use different gear and clothing.

Edited by hknewman on 01/24/2011 21:45:48 MST.

Larry Dyer
(veriest1) - F

Locale: Texas
Re: General go-anywhere/ 3-season gear-list almost complete on 01/25/2011 00:41:57 MST Print View

The Osperey seems like a beast of a pack for even an 11.5 pound baseweight. When you get under 10... it just seems like you could save some decent weight here. A 2010 Golite Jam can be had for <$100 and weighs in at about 28 ounces stock and it's easy to trim that down a fair bit.

A 30 degree quilt could weigh in between 19-22 ounces instead of 33 ounces.

It looks like theres some decent weight to be saved by switching over to an alcohol stove setup and a smaller pot as well.

Do you really need capaline 1's just for sleeping on every trip? If it's cold enough that you'll need them for warmth then you'll probably want more sleeping pad. If they're just pajamas ditch them.

The R1 is heavy (but pretty bomber). A Montbell Exlite in XL weighs <6.5 ounces.

How do you feel about tarps? A single wall tent maybe? 37 ounces is really heavy for 1 person and seems a bit over weight even for two. There's lots of options out there to cut weight here.

The osprey, or even a jam, should have enough organization to not need a ditty bag.

How heavy is your unlisted first aid kit?

Edited by veriest1 on 01/25/2011 00:50:28 MST.

HK Newman
(hknewman) - MLife

Locale: Western US
My 3-season changes.. on 01/25/2011 07:50:21 MST Print View

Yes, I have been eyeing a 32F rated down quilt for some time. It's tough thinking about selling the Western Mountaineering bag, but that type of weight savings may be needed to get me into a "frameless" pack that I've been eyeing.

Those 2 would amount to significant weight savings.

Having used bivy sacks in the past, I use tents after stung by scorpions a number of times and prefer to have some mesh between me and the ground. Not to mention some hardpack campsites I've experienced (Grand Canyon - both primitive and corridor, where the rangers have ticketed friends errant tent lines that anchor off the hardpack). Still, returning to bivy sacks and/or setting up a tarp is increasingly appealing. Just need to keep the total weight with the additional stakes, ground cloth (which I do not use with tents), etc.. in mind. With a bivy there's no need to jostle for tent space, and could set my camp up later after the arachnids have gone to ground ... will need to rethink this.

The R1 hoody is me a gear simplification step since it has a slight hard-face and just the perfect wind resistance for me ... i.e. combines insulation and a windlayer. Also with the hoody, I do not have to get a mid-layer and a hat out of the pack in case of just sprinkles or a cold driven wind.

I have a small plastic bag with a few band-aids and a small packet of antibiotic gel. I'll need to weigh that, and maybe just toss the items in the "ditty bag".

Edited by hknewman on 01/25/2011 08:05:41 MST.

Mike Clelland
(mikeclelland) - MLife

Locale: The Tetons (via Idaho)
some feedback on 01/25/2011 11:03:04 MST Print View

My insights and feedback:
=========================

Pack Osprey "Exos 46" 41 - - Huh? This is ridiculously heavy. You can EASILY get by with something UNDER 16 oz.

Cover Granite Gear (Sil) 3 - - Is this a pack cover? A pack cover will NOT waterproof your pack. Replace with a cheapo pack LINER. (2.2 oz) Hefty trash COMPACTOR bag.

Insulation Pata - R1 Hoody 12.1 - - - REPLACE with a Montbel inner down jacket (7 oz)

Shelter BA Fly Ck 1 (w/stakes) 37 - - - This is a LOT for a fly. Replace with a GG SpinTarp at about 10 oz with stakes.

LJ's dry Pata 1's for sleep 10 - - NIX pajamas and sleep in your hiking gear.

Stove Snowpeak 1.9 - - NIX and replace with a much lighter alcohol set up.

Pot Evernew 0.9L 4.93 - - - are you SOLO camping? Or part of a team? If solo, 0.9 liter is too big, get a smaller vessel, just a cup will do fine.

Knife Benchmade "530" 1.6 - - NIX and replace with a 0.1 oz single edge razor blade.

Lighter Lighter (small) 1 - - a mini-bic is 0.4 oz, replace.

Ditty bag Sea-to-Summit (Sil) 1.3 - - NIX - - replace with plastic baggie.

AquaMira drops - these can be repackaged into smaller bottles, saving weight, 3 oz is too much.

QUESTION:
============
- I don't see any essentials like soap, sunblock, first aid, head-lamp etc??? These are part of the pack weight too.

Edited by mikeclelland on 01/25/2011 11:54:08 MST.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
gear on 01/25/2011 17:58:55 MST Print View

I think the list looks pretty darn good overall (you are missing some small, but important bits pointed out above).

Your gear list reminds VERY much of my first foray into light backpacking- light pack, light tent, light sleeping bag, light canister stove- all high quality choices btw. I had a Exos 46- great pack, no real complaints and for a full featured, framed pack- pretty decent weight. It was really handy on longer trips w/ my wife (require more creature comforts going w/ the "boss" :)), but for solo use I have really trimmed back- frameless pack, poncho/tarp, quilt, etc

I think you can make some small adjustments and shed some weight- losing the "jamas", pack liner vs pack cover (liners work better to boot), repackaging water treatment (and sunscreen, bug dope, soap, etc), smaller pot (I can get by w/ a 450 mug for solo- w/ add water meals, and very easily w/ a 600), but you may be at a crossroads IF you want to go much lighter. If that is the case, it may be worthwhile "playing" w/ a tarp to begin with and if that takes, then maybe a frameless pack. The Megalite is a great bag, that would be the last thing I'd swap out (if at all).

Mike

Nicholas Truax
(nicktruax) - F

Locale: Montanada
Fly on 01/25/2011 22:24:26 MST Print View

Mike -

FWIW if I am reading into this properly, the BA Fly Ck 1 is not a fly, but a double-walled tent - hence the weight.

HK Newman
(hknewman) - MLife

Locale: Western US
So far, so good... on 01/25/2011 22:41:35 MST Print View

Yes, that'd be the "Fly Creek" tent (with stakes, stuff sack, pole sack, etc...). The tent is just a tad too short for me and the Exos, with great ventilation, has a pack frame rubs my back wrong, so no problem replacing two of the Big 3 off the bat.

As for the rest of the suggestions, OK at doing about 80% of the replacements or NIXes.

My lightsource is a BD Spot (w/batteries) at 3 oz; right now the pack is being used as a winter/snow daypack so not packing my usual mini hand-sanitizer or sunscreen (i.e. in the car). Rarely needed the bug dope, so I stopped carrying it... might need to start.

Mike Clelland
(mikeclelland) - MLife

Locale: The Tetons (via Idaho)
sleeping bag on 01/25/2011 23:06:14 MST Print View

The sleeping bag is one item where it makes sense to go a little bit heavier than a true UL zealot.

You are spending approx. 1/3 of your time inside it! And, it can allow you to go a little bit lighter on clothing layers.If you get REALLY cold, you can always just hop in the sleeping bag for guaranteed warmth.

-----------

HK, you should be able to get your baseweight down below 10 pounds with very little effort. This is an achievable goal!

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: some feedback on 01/25/2011 23:23:09 MST Print View

My humble opinions added to the fray ;)
=========================

Pack Osprey "Exos 46" 41 - - Nice framed pack, good weight transfer and comfortable. I use one too. I'm sick and tired of loading lumpy frameless packs and I'm not going to take it anymore!

Cover Granite Gear (Sil) 3 - - Clelland is right on this one. Use a liner. Or wear a poncho and keep you pack really dry.

Insulation Pata - R1 Hoody 12.1 - - - Keep your fleece if you hike in wet country. I use Power Stretch the same way. IMHO, those skinny down and polyfill jackets are hype. The R1 with a windshirt or a rain shell is nice. You can sleep in it too. My Power Stretch hoodie with a Micro Puff vest is toasty.

Shelter BA Fly Ck 1 (w/stakes) 37 - - - Nice TENT :) Takes a lot of stakes though, eh? I had a Seedhouse--- TWELVE stakes to pitch a "freestanding" tent.

LJ's dry Pata 1's for sleep 10 - - Work great under rain pants in cold rain.

Stove Snowpeak 1.9 - - Good canister stove. Alcohol stoves are toys.

Pot Evernew 0.9L 4.93 - - - It is large, unless you actually cook. I like a 700 for better storage than the 550 I was using and it boils enough water for my meal and a hot drink in one boil. Better for boiling to purify if needed. The low, wide profile on the 900 is nice.

Knife Benchmade "530" 1.6 - - Nice blade. Don't leave home without it :) Wandering around the woods without a basic folding knife isn't a good idea. And you can cut yourself bad trying to over-use a razor blade. I like a more rounded handle like the Griptilian, but the cheese doesn't know the difference :)

Lighter Lighter (small) 1 - - A mini Bic is lighter, but have a firesteel and/or matches and a little tinder too.

Ditty bag Sea-to-Summit (Sil) 1.3 - - I use a Granite Gear Air Bag. I want a Cuben one. I like the little one liter Sea to Summit silnylon dry bags as well, which are gone like the GG Air Bags.

AquaMira drops - yeah, you don't need the whole thing at once, or use tablets.

QUESTION:
============
- I don't see any essentials like soap, sunblock, first aid, head-lamp etc??? These are part of the pack weight too.

Clelland is right-- this stuff can add up and you need to pay attention or it will get away form you. I was surprised when I added up all the hygiene stuff and the smaller items, even when using small dropper bottles and vials. In fact I'm going to write up a little post on 'things other than the Big 3.'

Brian Austin
(footeab) - F

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Are you a solitary hiker? on 01/27/2011 17:48:23 MST Print View

Question? Are you a solitary hiker? Do you ever want to go on snow? Need Ice axe and tent with an awning then.

Guys here have said you can save weight on stove, pot, and shelter. This is only true if you never plan on having anyone else along on your trips. I don't know about you, but this gets darned lonely if done all the time. I will note that nearly ALL PCT/ACT hikers hike in "loose" groups even though they all carry Ultra light gear. IF they wanted truly ultralight half their shelters cooking gear aren't really needed. Get a buddy before going, and you drop your weight by a pound each just by joining up with someone else!

Personally, I never buy a tent or basic stuff that is good for ONLY, ME, MYSELF, and I. Damned lonely. To each his own. Ultimate lightweight is a tarp/hiking poles/rocks/guylines, and groundsheet. Oi! The bugs!

Now if you have money burning a hole in your pocket and hike by yourself all the time, sure get a new pack, tent, and smaller/lighter cooking gear. Though I have to disagree about getting rid of the R1 Patagonia pull over. Its too tough and versatile. There comes a point where weight doesn't matter, but rather durability does matter.

I have found that anytime I am NOT hiking by myself, I need those heavier packs, that larger tent, and that heavier larger cooking gear. If you really want to talk weight savings, camping with two people saves weight. 1 larger pack and 1 UL pack sack. Switch between people every other couple hours. 1 Tent for 2 is lighter, and 1 cooking set instead of 2 is lighter.

You will find, well I have found, that cooking for 2 or more, is impossible with super light alcohol stoves/pots. Need a larger Alchohol stove. Now, its probably me not being aware of such a stove in the first place. I carry white gas/gasoline stove. Also need a larger pot. Besides I like real food, not reconstituted garbage sold in your typical store for 5 million dollars. This takes a larger pot as I am not just heating water! Last I checked nearly every last one of said packages sell pasta and dried seasonings at say REI, Marmot, etc, don't know about you, but I can buy pasta and dried seasonings in my local store for 1/4 the price good for more people. Just an FYI in case you didn't already know that. Most don't.

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Re: Are you a solitary hiker? on 01/27/2011 18:01:22 MST Print View

If one of my sons goes on a trip with me then I swap out one item; the tarp/bivy gets replaced with a TT Squall. (It has same weight per person.) Everything else, alchohol stove etc, stays the same you just add the additional SB, ad etc. Maybe I'm the exception but I doubt it.

HK Newman
(hknewman) - MLife

Locale: Western US
Now .... Implementation on 01/27/2011 20:28:09 MST Print View

@ Mike C. - Thanks, I also dusted off my copy of "Lighten Up" and checked out your gear list vis-a-vis your recommendations, esp when my OP implied cool-cold and potentially wet conditions.

Likewise I also dusted off my Granite Gear Virga (Size L) - used for a year but forgotten/wrote-off when I went overseas and been kind of dazzled by new "award-winning" gear while internet-shopping across the ocean. Packed a Downmat 9 (deflated) in it the GG once for a good night sleep experiment, so it should be up for anything.

@ Mike M. - It's good top-notch stuff but think I am at a point of diminishing return with lightweight gear and need to take the UL plunge, as a recent Pt Reyes trip proved as condensation soaked the fly of my too-small tent (too small since I was saving a few oz vs. a Fly Ck 2) and fog prevented any drying out (more a PITA since I was packing out). Some of my fellow campers were using "tarps" (actually footprints as tarps - sale at REI for $1 each) and we all had a good time. I've been thinking of tarps for several years in drizzly conditions (set up from the inside vs monkeying around trying to set up a double wall tent dry), so the time is now.

Now to find that perfect tarp...

@ Brian - I usually go solo and pack solo, even when taking overnight trips with some of the local loose-knit groups (helps when someone invariably forgets something). If a girlfriend is coming along, then it's shared gear. For winter day trips in the snow - my usual winter weekend haunts are in the southern Sangres - no ice ax needed so far (usually snowshoe and am taking XC ski lessons). Not interested in camping in serious snow currently.

@ Greg - Like your reasoning when keeping weight per hiker the same.

The plan: sell off some of the old gear and give it a good home to make room for the new ($$$ less of an issue than space) and repurpose some of the other stuff (just found the MYOG forum). Think I am back on track...



ADD: Anyone else feel free to add or comment further but think I'm done here until I order and receive a new shelter.

Adios for now..

Edited by hknewman on 01/27/2011 21:57:19 MST.

HK Newman
(hknewman) - MLife

Locale: Western US
Re: About the stove on 01/27/2011 21:20:06 MST Print View

Whoops, forgot...

@ Brian

Not giving up my Snowpeak but also looking into an alcohol stove for overnights, 3-day weekend.

Reasoning: A friend of mine baked and grilled using an alky stove that was made by a Boy Scout and sold online with a foldable windscreen/grill (with one of those Backpacker/Baker sets - they still sell those). All in a Gossamer Gear pack. He has been very busy so I haven't asked him about the various brand names.

Can pack a lot of function for little weight. Still, the Snowpeak is a great little stove...

Edited by hknewman on 01/27/2011 21:58:24 MST.

Brian Austin
(footeab) - F

Locale: Pacific Northwest
alcy stove on 01/28/2011 14:15:45 MST Print View

Hmm I think you have persuaded me to lighten my wallet and search for a proper alky stove made more for cooking than just heating water. Maybe get ambitious and make one myself. No more pumping required, that and no more white gas smell.

Troy Childs
(tchilds) - F
Re: My 3-season changes.. on 02/05/2011 20:21:48 MST Print View

Having used bivy sacks in the past, I use tents after stung by scorpions a number of times and prefer to have some mesh between me and the ground.

An old trick that the illegal immigrants use to avoid scorpions may help you. Take some garlic gloves with you and rub them around the perimeter of your ground cloth. This will keep the scorpions at bay, dunno why but it works. The immigrants from down south use it when they hop the border and sleep on trash bags at night.

HK Newman
(hknewman) - MLife

Locale: Western US
Re: Re: Shelter - 3-season changes.. on 02/07/2011 17:32:54 MST Print View

@ Troy:

Did not know if you were responding to this thread or my responses to a desert list. As I sell some tents, I'm researching lighter shelter options that give more usable volume for less weight than the 37 oz above. Want to think through this process so my storage closet gets smaller, not larger.

I could go with a tarp on many of my hikes but a little mesh during bug season is always nice (if forced to camp where it's "muggy and buggy" - not overly concerned but I still would like to avoid scorpion sting #4). Would like to narrow it down to one shelter but I may end up with a couple, plus a MYOG project. The idea is to sell 2 items from my gear closet and pick up 1 lighter weight alternative.

Think the garlic would be much better in my spaghetti (historic Night #2 meal).

Edited by hknewman on 02/07/2011 19:10:12 MST.