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Mark Hudson
(vesteroid) - MLife

Locale: Eastern Sierras
winter quilt on 01/24/2011 19:32:28 MST Print View

guys, I need some experienced advice.

I have been building a winter kit and the last thing I needed to add was a bag/quilt.

I wrestled with the purchase as a decent winter bag for 0 degree is not at all cheap.

I finally settled on a High Sierra Snivler from jacks are better. They rate this quilt at 0-5 degrees in the product description. It just came in and after looking at it I have some serious concerns.

I took it out, let it loft for half and hour and then got out my 3 season WM Alpinelite to lay next to it for comparison. The JRB quilt does loft up to around the 3-3.5 inches it states on the website. The main difference I see is the "feel" of the down when I compress it. I know this sounds odd, but the JRB quilt will compress down with two hands to almost flat with very little resistance, while doing the same with the WM bag, I get substantially more resistance...in other words the down feels thicker so to speak like denser foam if I had to describe it.

This caused me to go back to the web and do some more research. The fill weight of the jrb quilt is listed as 17 oz of 900. By comparison my WM alpenlite is listed at 21 oz for a 20 degree bag.

I searched around on the jrb website and while the product description says 0-5 degree, the comparison table in another section says 10-15 degree. Thats a lot of difference and concerns me about being at all comfortable in this quilt in real 0 conditions.

Just to see if it was quilt vs sleeping bag related I went to Katabatics website and they list their 0 quilt in long as having 24.2 oz of down fill. Their quilt is wider however 52 vs 58 and claimed at 4 inches of loft vs 3.5 claimed for JRB.

I am not upset with JRB at all and this is not what this thread is about, but I am trying (while I can still return it) to get an honest opinion if this is the right quilt for me.

My gut tells me the 0-5 degree rating is optimistic and the 10-15 they list in another section is more accurate....the low fill weight is what is telling me that along with the "compression" As I already have a great 20 degree bag, I dont need a 15 quilt.

Am I over analyzing this, or am I pretty close...BTW I have always been a cold sleeper.

Edited by vesteroid on 01/24/2011 19:35:15 MST.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: winter quilt on 01/24/2011 20:17:17 MST Print View

I've never owned the High Sierra Sniveller so I can't comment on how true to rating it is, but I think it would be worth an email to JRB asking them about the discrepancy on their site (listed as 10-15 on their quilt comparison page and 0-5 on the Sniveller page). They'll give you a quick, honest answer.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: winter quilt on 01/24/2011 20:24:07 MST Print View

Go with your gut. I have a JRB Stealth. It too is rated somewhat optimistically IMO.

Chris Hanson
(ChrisHanson) - F

Locale: Eastern Wyoming
Winter Quilt on 01/24/2011 21:26:50 MST Print View

I have a Stealth and was toasty in 40 degree weather but had a light jacket, thin wool beanie and light weight long johns....I'm going to try it again in similar conditions without the "extras" and see. I'm a fairly warm sleeper so it will be interesting to see.

Mark Hudson
(vesteroid) - MLife

Locale: Eastern Sierras
final comments on 01/26/2011 19:05:30 MST Print View

I talked to Jack today for some time. I was sincerely impressed with his knowledge of his products and the industry at large. He spent a substantial amount of time educating me (at my request) on quilts and how his models fit into the market place.

In the end we both agreed that he would make me a new quilt with 2 oz exta down and I would return the original.

He even rushed it to get it to me by my trip.

It was a very positive experience and one that will keep me as a customer as I slowly switch out my heavier bags for quilts.

Thanks Jack.

Warren Crow
(crowculbertson) - MLife

Locale: Alabama
Temp variance on 01/26/2011 20:28:38 MST Print View

" (listed as 10-15 on their quilt comparison page and 0-5 on the Sniveller page). "

Did he have an explanation for this?

Edited by crowculbertson on 01/26/2011 21:35:15 MST.

Mark Hudson
(vesteroid) - MLife

Locale: Eastern Sierras
yes on 01/27/2011 06:05:16 MST Print View

He said he simply had a typo on the comparison pages. he does have a very large website compared to many cottage guys and I can see how these things happen,

he went in depth regarding loft height, fill weight, and baffle design with me and even did some direct comparison (at my request) to some other well known quilts on the market.

I am confident that with the two extra ounces, it will meet my needs, and frankly, I suspect after talking to him I dont really need the two extra ounces, but I decided I would rather have them and not need them, than the other way around.

Warren Crow
(crowculbertson) - MLife

Locale: Alabama
Which is it? on 01/27/2011 08:27:50 MST Print View

So the High Sierra Sniveller (800 fill) is a 10 -- 15F rated quilt? Actually if the "comparison page" is wrong then it is a 0 -- 5F temp rated quilt.

Edited by crowculbertson on 01/27/2011 08:30:39 MST.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
QUILT? For WINTER? on 01/27/2011 11:13:10 MST Print View

Hmmmm... Personally I'd opt for a bag due to its thermal efficiency. Quilts just have too meny "heat leaks", IMHO.

In winter I doubt you'd be saving much weight with a quilt by the time you add a quilted hood. A balaclava alone just won't cut it in the low metabolic situation you're in when sleeping. And a good winter bag is just so comfy.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: QUILT? For WINTER? on 01/27/2011 13:46:04 MST Print View

Eskimos don't have sleeping bags. Have stayed with quilt like technology for thousands of years.

Evan McCarthy
(evanrussia) - MLife

Locale: Northern Europe
winter quilt on 01/27/2011 14:15:33 MST Print View

Great thread. I switched to a JRB High Sierra Sniveller this year, with the idea that it could function as a 0-5 degree quilt. I've been out a few times this winter in the mid-Atlantic and haven't been able to really push it. But I haven't been cold either.

My sleep system is:

JRB High Sierra
Downmat 9
MLD Superlight bivy
(I also have an RBH Designs vapor barrier liner that I've been meaning to try)

But I also have an Alpine Light Down Parka, UL Down Inner pants, and FF booties that I sleep with too, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that I don't get too cold.

It does make me wonder how far I can push my sleep system. Will a true 0 degree night leave me truly uncomfortable. We shall see.

Edited by evanrussia on 01/27/2011 14:35:59 MST.

peter vacco
(fluff@inreach.com) - M

Locale: no. california
Re: winter quilt on 01/27/2011 18:41:00 MST Print View

" dont really need the two extra ounces, but I decided I would rather have them and not need them, than the other way around."

perhaps not right now, but give it a trip or two, with a good "packed wet and tight", and the poofy poofy fades ... and then 2oz's will look like he should'a had 4.

Mark Hudson
(vesteroid) - MLife

Locale: Eastern Sierras
update on 01/27/2011 19:12:18 MST Print View

Jack shipped my custom quilt in only one day.

Eric...I hear you, but A. the WM Kodiak cost a ton more, and does in fact weight a bit more. I think in a long its 510.00 vs the 390 or so I paid for this quilt. I also am taking my flash hooded jacket for camp wear and sleeping it it, so I have a down hood built in so to speak.

Bottom line on my experience, is jacks r better is running a truly well integrated business. They have a wide product line, they stock inventory and pride themselves on shipping same or next day, and they have personal service to boot.


while i feel I have gotten personal service from several other cottage guys, I can say without a doubt all of them have had much longer waiting times (often unknown waiting times) and communication with them has often been sparse or totally absent.

jack and his team were completely different.

for instance, I emailed bender and asked before I bought what his lead time on a mat for me was. he told me 3 weeks. I placed the order and now 5 weeks later I don't have it, and don't get return emails for over a week.

it puts me in a bad spot. I really want this pad, and I want it from bender, because I like to support the little guys, but it looks like I wont get it before my camping class and cant afford to just go buy a down mat and have to pay for benders (which I had to do when i placed my order)

Edited by vesteroid on 01/27/2011 19:14:23 MST.