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Jack H.
(Found) - F

Locale: Sacramento, CA
Dimension Polyant Fabrics - Xpac and the like... on 01/23/2011 21:12:14 MST Print View

Hey Ya'll,

I'm looking into fabrics to make into durable packs. Xpac looks great, but it's confusing. Can someone please shed light on the various choices from Dimension Polyant? Their website does not list the typical fabrics that hikers seem to mention. Nor do they have information on the fabrics that Cilo Gear uses. I'm leaning away from Dyneema Gridstop X because it's expensive, and I wonder if xpac isn't better (for the same weight?).

http://www.dimension-polyant.com/en

Rockywood seems to be the only company to sell the stuff.. Which fabric is it? How much does it really weigh?

Cilo Gear material description

Below are various helpful comments I found through searching...
"If you are looking to save some money, you could try VX21 XPac fabric from Dimension Polyant. If you contact DimPoly they will sell you the material directly and it runs about $9.85 per yard normally, with 2nds at $5.85 and some overstocks at $7.50 per yard.
I like the VX21, but at 6.2 oz/yd it is pretty heavy compared to the Dyneema X

Xpac comes in WX07 that weigh in at 3.6 oz. yard it their light pack version nice fabric with a reinforcement grid plus totally water proof membrane.

Rockywoods' XPAC appears to be VX07 70 denier based on their weight claims. Does the grey and lime green fabric feel like the same weight?
The green xpac feels lighter then the grey, The green looks like it has a 70d ripstop for the top layer, where the grey is not ripstop, and feels heavier and stiffer, which i like for the bottom and back of the bag. I do want to try some of there red and orange xpac, I hope it is like the green."


Sooo... Is WX07 and VX07 the same stuff? How is it? Stronger than Dyneema X? Do you prefer the VX21? I assume the higher the number the stronger the fabric.


I'm planning on making a full xpac pack. Fifty liters, frameless, hipbeltless, no zipper. Styled like a Golite Jam 2. Any idea how much it'd weigh?

David Chenault
(DaveC) - BPL Staff - F

Locale: Crown of the Continent
DimPoly v. Dynemma on 01/23/2011 21:20:59 MST Print View

I can't comment on weather XPac is Dimension Polyant as Rockywoods claims. I bought the VX-21 I made into packs from a friend in the industry.

I'm not sure that VX-21 is more abrasion and tear resistant than Dyneema gridstop. It is definitely more waterproof.

Jack H.
(Found) - F

Locale: Sacramento, CA
Re: DimPoly v. Dynemma on 01/23/2011 21:31:42 MST Print View

Thanks Dave. How's the general durability of your pack so far? Sometimes fabrics wear strangely, like carhartts that get holes quickly. Is it slightly heavier than Dyneema Gridstop?

Marc Shea
(FlytePacker) - F

Locale: Cascades
Re: Re: DimPoly v. Dynemma on 01/23/2011 23:31:03 MST Print View

Jack, I have a spec sheet for DimPoly's products. If you send me an email I would be happy to email it to you. marc@flyweightdesigns.com

Jared Dilg
(Village) - MLife

Locale: Texas
Re: Dimension Polyant Fabrics - Xpac and the like... on 01/23/2011 23:39:00 MST Print View

I posted this about a year ago, so it's the 2009 product list. Still it should be helpful for you: Sport Material Guide 2009.pdf (probably what Marc has, but older)

Andrew Schriner
(lettheguydance) - F

Locale: Midwest
DP and XPac on 01/24/2011 12:33:23 MST Print View

I ordered some VX07 and VX21 directly from DP about a year ago. I've used it in a 60L load monster backpack as well as a 20L day climbing pack/summit pack, both pretty much copied from Cilogear designs. I also have a sample of the bright orange XPac from Rockywoods, which seems similar enough to the VX21 that I would guess they are the same.

The DP fabrics are very stiff compared to Dyneema X. They are definitely waterproof. The VX07 on my climbing pack is a little abraded but that pack gets some abuse. It's just the outermost face fabric too, so it doesn't worry me. I plan to make a 40L alpine climbing pack out of VX21 and Dyneema X on the side panels after having seen how they both hold up.

What is your pack for? Backpacking (more lightweight) or climbing (more durability)? VX21 is probably overkill for backpacking.

As for calculating weight, use a spreadsheet if you're not already drawing the pattern in CAD. But also note that webbing is a very significant part of the weight - sometimes as much or more than the fabric.

Cheers,
Andy

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Dimension Polyant Fabrics - Xpac and the like... on 01/24/2011 14:27:32 MST Print View

Hi Jack

I make all my packs using X-Pac fabrics. It's really good stuff.
The face fabric seems pretty tough, especially the heavier grades.
The Mylar layer inside is like Cuben fabric, except Cuben has two Mylar layers. But it is very dimensionally stable, and it is waterproof.
The lining fabric is not that tough, but it is OK.
The diagonal grid is useful but maybe not critical.

Cheers

David Chenault
(DaveC) - BPL Staff - F

Locale: Crown of the Continent
VX-21 durability on 01/24/2011 14:28:21 MST Print View

The VX-21 is holding up very well thus far. The face fabric is a tight, fine weave (compared to conventional Cordura) to I think it'll last a while. Gains almost no weight when soaked, which is awesome.

Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - M

Locale: Southeast
xpac on 01/24/2011 17:15:07 MST Print View

I have made packs out of TX07, VX07, and WX07. All are fine, but you have to be more careful with the TX07 as it's one of less durable fabrics they make. It's slightly heavier than advertised at 2.9 oz/yd. Although I haven't used them, I would imagine any of their 200D fabrics would be very tough.

Ryan

Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - M

Locale: Southeast
xpac on 01/24/2011 17:19:12 MST Print View

double post

Ryan

Edited by ViolentGreen on 01/24/2011 17:19:46 MST.

Jack H.
(Found) - F

Locale: Sacramento, CA
Re: Re: Dimension Polyant Fabrics - Xpac and the like... on 01/24/2011 21:48:52 MST Print View

Roger, what type of X-pac have you used in your packs?

Andrew, my pack is for thruhiking. I'm someone who prefers a little durability. I like to sit on my pack. And I spend a lot of time in canyon country which is very hard on gear. I don't think I've seen VX07. Is it fairly durable or paper thin? I'm looking to stay away from Cuben, silnylon and other really light fabrics. And I'd like my pack to be as low as it can be.

Ryan, there is no WX07 listed nowadays from DP. How are you liking your VX07? Any photos of your packs? Why'd you go with this fabric? Seem durable to you?

DimPoly sent me a price list quite promptly btw.

Lawson Kline
(Mountainfitter) - M

Locale: LawsonEquipment.com
VX07 on 01/24/2011 22:04:17 MST Print View

VX07 is pretty durable stuff. Maybe similar to an imported 200d oxford. It's defiantly more durable then a CT5K.18 cuben fiber and I would say more water-resistant too. Plus it can be sewn which makes it a great material. If I were using it for a backapack I would use it in lower abrasion areas like the top of a pack bag, top of your should straps. I would use something heavier for the bottom and hip belt sides though..

Jack H.
(Found) - F

Locale: Sacramento, CA
Re: VX07 on 01/24/2011 22:28:17 MST Print View

Solid advice. Thanks!

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Dimension Polyant Fabrics - Xpac and the like... on 01/24/2011 22:38:10 MST Print View

Hi Jack

I found the VX04 (104 gsm) to be a bit too delicate for the scrub and rocks around Wollemi (admittedly harsh country), although it would be fine for trail walking.
I have used VX07, VX15 (187 gsm) and VX21 (204 gsm) for the bag, and VX33 (or VXh3) (255 gsm) for the base of the pack which has to take abrasion. I have used a single layer of VX42 (272 gsm) for pack straps.

The biggest problem I have had with X-Pac fabric is that hard objects on the inside of the bag tend to abrade the tricot liner fabric away from where the grid threads cross over. But that takes a LOT of use before it happens. I have since been a bit more careful about how I pack stuff, and that seems to work.

Sewing - a heavy bonded nylon thread and #100 needles on an old black Singer sewing machine. Seams can be taped on the inside to make the bag pretty much waterproof.

I don't bother with a pack cover any more.

Cheers

Andrew Schriner
(lettheguydance) - F

Locale: Midwest
VX07 on 01/25/2011 21:44:35 MST Print View

>>Is it fairly durable or paper thin?

Certainly not paper thin. In thickness it feels more like a 200D cordura, but it's stiffer than that. It's kind of hard to describe, but it's qualitatively different than anything else. You'll know what I mean when you get your hands on some. I looked more closely at my climbing pack which has VX07 on the back panel (ie against my back) and it's just lightly abraded across the bottom of that panel, while the rest of the pack body, which is 1.9 oz silnylon, looks basically new. I think the abrasion is just from rubbing against my back. I did also use the VX07 on the tops of the shoulder straps and I think that is a great place for it.

>>I don't bother with a pack cover any more.

Word. The stuff is really waterproof. I don't use a pack cover either.

Jack H.
(Found) - F

Locale: Sacramento, CA
Re: VX07 on 01/27/2011 21:14:02 MST Print View

Abraision simply from rubbing against your back? That's pretty strange and to me, indicative of lack of abrasion resistance. Not sure I want that....

Andrew Schriner
(lettheguydance) - F

Locale: Midwest
VX07 abrasion on 01/31/2011 10:15:59 MST Print View

Yeah, the abrasion on the back panel perplexes me. I do use that pack for climbing, so I sometimes will finish a pitch, take it off and clip it to the anchor (so it rests against the rock), and then belay...but I've only had it about a year and I can't really remember ever dragging it against rock, just placing it and clipping in. So the only other thing I could think of it that it's from rubbing against my back.

Here's the back panel of said pack. It's very lightly abraded; just kind of fuzzed up.
VX07

Terry Trimble
(socal-nomad) - F

Locale: North San Diego county
Re: VX07 abrasion on 01/31/2011 19:36:38 MST Print View

The abrasion might be the softer cloth fabric abrades easier because it laminated to a stiff film in xpac.
I have had concerns about using just a xpac fabric back panel that body sweat salts might delaminated the film and the fabric. So I use the 4 mm foam mesh from rocky woods between my back and the xpac fabric.
I wonder if the owners of Clio Gear or Wild Things have had any return problems with xpac fabric and film delamination on packs that have been used a few years due to sweat?

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
"Dimension Polyant Fabrics - Xpac and the like..." on 01/31/2011 21:25:22 MST Print View

I've been using 4 oz (total) nylon Spectra Gridstop in my current MYOG pack, and it is pretty rugged - no problems with wear and tear.

But I want to go lighter, so the next pack will have an alloy tube frame about the thickness of tent pole tubing, inspired by Roger Caffin, and 1.9 oz nylon with a silicone coating on one side, bought from Warmlite. In my experience, the silnylon will be much easier to re-treat when needed for weatherproofness than PU coated fabrics. Certainly the pack will require more careful treatment than the present one, but it will be much lighter.

Not convinced that the 2.9 oz DP stuff would be that much better than 2.5 oz (total) silnylon, mostly because the mylar-like materials used to encapusulate the aramid or other high tech fibers don't seem particularly rugged. Have already developed this type of cocern with the Mylar used in Cuben; but would be interest in knowing what folks think who have used the 2.9 ox DP fabrics in rugged use.

Terry Trimble
(socal-nomad) - F

Locale: North San Diego county
X pac is tough fabric on 02/01/2011 08:54:58 MST Print View

Xpac is tough fabric than Cuben is concerning durability. The manufactures I know who use it in all their packs are Clio Gear, Wild things, Mystery Ranch owned by Dana Gleason of Dana design fame use Xpac in certain area of the pack for structural stiffness. Black diamond also has used elements of xpac in their packs. So I would say it is a very tough fabric. My only concern is delamnation form prolong contact with body salts sweat. But my fears may be unfounded because xpac is laminated with heat presses.

But Xpac has one quirks in working with it because of the mylar film as does cuben. Make sure each stitch is the correct the first time. Because if you sou seam rip the thread it leaves puncture marks and defeats the water proof fabric.

Edited by socal-nomad on 02/01/2011 09:05:40 MST.