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PAUL RICHARDSON
(p178@aol.com) - F
The new Chaff on 01/14/2011 13:42:43 MST Print View

Chaff: Unrelated to any of the forums above. No rules regarding the topic. Opinions, politics, the benefits of heavy gear, you name it. Please, no commercial posts, and NO SPAM. Courtesy is monitored in the other forums. In this one, you may need some thick skin to play with the big dogs.

Disclaimer: Unless you talk about something BPL doesn't want you to talk about.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: The new Chaff on 01/14/2011 13:50:10 MST Print View

I suppose you could go start a company and member-supported website devoted to the unrestricted free speech and debate on the internet.

Last I checked, this website is funded by a company that sells products, content, and solicits memberships. They have a public image and forum climate that they rightfully want to maintain, and ultimately, they are free to determine the content on their own website.

It makes sense to me.

PAUL RICHARDSON
(p178@aol.com) - F
BPL just changed the rules.. on 01/14/2011 13:58:16 MST Print View

Craig,

I was merely pointing out BPL's own rules regarding Chaff. Apparently they have changed those rules and neglected to update their listed Chaff policies. I firmly believe they have every right to change their rules as they see fit.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: BPL just changed the rules.. on 01/14/2011 14:34:04 MST Print View

I think Craig said it all very well.

The thread that you posted was doomed to be a nightmare from the start, and I am sure the two parties you identified were probably not thrilled about it either.

I have seen some online message boards morph into a disgusting gutter of inhumanity. Then the real purpose of the forum is diluted, erased, or the message board even disappears from the Internet, due to an exodus of the membership.


Do not confuse a commercial endeavor with free-speech. I do not expect BPL to create a lengthy dissertation of what is, and what is not permitted. Basically we can post anything you want in Chaff; for the most part. If a thread crosses BPL's subjective perspective of what is acceptable, then they can do as they please. In the long run, it is best for all. Often when BPL moderates a thread, most members are please with the decision. I do not feel they owe anyone a response to justify or explain the reasons for deleting or locking a thread.

I do think it is appropriate for BPL to remove content they feel is counter-productive to their goals and/or mission. And as members we are free to stop using the forums too. Perfect set-up.

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
meet the new chaff, same as the old chaff. on 01/14/2011 14:51:02 MST Print View

"I do think it is appropriate for BPL to remove content they feel is counter-productive to their goals and/or mission. And as members we are free to stop using the forums too."


+1.

Doesn't seem like there has been any policy change. The description of the Chaff section as quoted isn't much of a description anyway, though I have always thought BPL should rewrite it to make it clearer that folks are still supposed to be relatively civil and whatnot. The "big dogs" stuff is just silly.

I think that it takes a LOT for BPL to censor something. And I think it's totally their right to edit threads that descend into Whiteblaze flame-o territory.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: meet the new chaff, same as the old chaff. on 01/14/2011 16:25:04 MST Print View

"I have always thought BPL should rewrite it to make it clearer that folks are still supposed to be relatively civil and whatnot."

+1, though it's a shame they should have to (and I say that even though I'm cognizant of having been less than civil in some posts).

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: The new Chaff on 01/14/2011 17:12:28 MST Print View

"Last I checked, this website is funded by a company that sells products, content, and solicits memberships."

Actually, it's funded by the collective membership and some amount of commercial income. However, by joining we agree to abide by BPL's rules and interpretation of same. While I hate to see threads deleted or posts censored, there have definitely been occasions where that has been warranted. There have also been threads where, IMO, censorship should have been exercised and wasn't, including at least one where I conducted myself in a less than exemplary manner. Arbitrary, subjective? Sure, but the folks that run this website are fallible humans like the rest of us and on the whole I think they do a pretty darn good job. One thing I do not question is their good intentions. Bottom line, it is up to the individual to decide whether or not this state of affairs is acceptable to them, or not, and participate, or not, accordingly. My 2 cents.

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Wheat 101 on 01/14/2011 18:15:33 MST Print View

The thresher got your chaa-aff
Yeah the thresher got your chaa-aff

Makes me wanna lauuu-uff
I say it make me wanna lauuu-uff

Aint no freedom of spe-ee-chees
Cuz we gotta tame the cree-ee-chaas

The creeeeeee-eeeee-chaaaaaaas
Got no free speeeee-eeee-cheees

Oh the creeeeeeeeee-chaaaaaaaas
Aint having no mo speeeeeeeeches

Steofan The Apostate
(simaulius) - F

Locale: Bohemian Alps
The new Chaff on 01/14/2011 20:47:16 MST Print View

Addie has put the smackdown on comments and conduct in the past. I trust her judgement and the good manners that we see on the whole at BLP. That having been said, it's time for me to go out and play with the big dog.Sysko

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: The new Chaff on 01/15/2011 04:55:03 MST Print View

There was one big to-do a while back in which my and others' posts were removed without notice and my reaction was less than civil at first. I do think that notice should be given, even if it is just in private because sometimes what one person is saying may actually not be all that bad, but another person just happens to disagree with it. When people start frothing at the mouth and resorting to badmouthing one another, then I think the removal is more than warranted. I feel now that the removal of my posts at that time were warranted, in part, and that their absence certainly doesn't take away from the experience here at BPL.

As to who the forums belong, too, well, this is a community-driven thing, NOT a BPL staff driven thing. BPL wouldn't exist or even have the name it does if it weren't for all the people freely contributing their time and expertise within the forums. Sometimes I think the BPL staff forgets this. The whole UL movement exists primarily because of all the people who are passionate about being part of it and participating in these kinds of forums. Were the members of the forum to stop coming to the BPL forums just what do you think would happen to BPL? The forums are BPL biggest source of advertising.

Naturally the site belongs to BPL. They pay for the hosting and the bandwidth and maintain and design the site. So from that point of view of course they have the right to control the information in the site.

From my stance it isn't so much the need to placate BPL staff that is important, so much as maintaining a community that values mutual respect and thereby keeps strong this movement we are all involved with. When we start degenerating into tantrum-throwing children then it hurts the whole community and takes away from our credibility and our ability to learn from one another. Plus it's just plain fun to make friends here and enjoy spending time together!

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife
Re: Re: The new Chaff on 01/15/2011 08:03:40 MST Print View

Well I for one hate seeing that rant crap on the forums. Nothing comes from it. Not positive, or even creatively critical. Without the BPL staff there would not be a site or the forums. Their solution of deletion is an effective option for them to keep things flowing smoothly. I mean who wanted to get in the middle between those too anyway? Plus their comments were ruining a perfectly happy thread. Thanks Addie!

Chad Miller
(chadnsc)

Locale: Duluth, Minnesota
The New Chaff - aka my feelings are hurt. :( on 01/19/2011 18:50:12 MST Print View

I'm gonna say thanks Addie!

If two little men want to fight do it like real men and talk to each other in person. Don't be a coward and do it online.