In case I run into snow/cold, I'd like to hear any suggestions concerning maintaining dry and warm running shoes. What comes to mind are the NEO's things, but that's about it. Any suggestions from the Backpackinglight intelligentsia?
thanks much,
the ThriftstoreMtneer
NH
dark

I have a pair of neos that I use for work but I wouldn't chose them for running if you are really going to run.
They would work for snowshoeing, adidas had a winter running shoe that was decent for snow covered roads called the adidas winter trainer. I used a pair all last winter that I picked up on the Sahalie website. They are still listed there... another choice would be to use your running shoes with a waterproof sock or neoprene socks, let the shoes get wet keep your feet dry.
You could kinda trudge in the neos but you won't be running.

what about tyvek booties? You can get them for under a buck a pair, just cut the sole out of them and run a seam of duct tape around where the sole of the shoes meets the tyvek. I use them as camp shoes in the winter...made the sole out of an old blue foam sleeping pad...

I personally haven't used this, but I saw these shoe covers online the other day:

http://www.moonbowgear.com/4clothingouterwear/NewClothing/raingear/rainchaps.html

Those silnylon boot covers don't look too durable. They also look slippery. Anybody use these?

> In case I run into snow/cold, I'd like to hear any suggestions concerning maintaining dry and warm running shoes.

This is the one situation where approach shoes with a GoreTex lining (or similar) are actually of some value.

I have also used light PU-coated nylon overbooties I made myself, while snowshoeing. they worked quite well, and lasted fairly well too.

I would first define running in the snow as either aerobic running on snow covered roadways or maintained paths or trying to run through deeper unplowed snow.
I do run on compact snow and ice using regular running shoes or a pair that I've screwed TEK screws through the sole, this is a hardened tipped self-drillng metal screw, for really icy conditions. About ten per shoe is fine on a pair of shoes that are at the end of their cycle. I've never had any luck with any of the traction devices holding up to running.
I also run through deeper snow mostly with the dog and it is difficult work, you get anaerobic very quickly bustin through drifts, lifting your legs higher, postholing.
If you are going to run in deep snow invest in some racing snowshoes or cross country ski...if snow is deep you cannot see what's underneath and murphy's law is just waiting for you.
I do have a pair of adidas winter trainers but to be honest I usually just grab my shoes and the dog and go.
There also is a shoe called the icebug that has a kind of retractable stud in the sole and it's brother the dmg with a gaiter, you can read a review at runningtimes.com, shoe reviews. Frozen water is slippery, duh, so pay attention to foot plants and weight transfer,your stabilizer muscles are working a lot harder so tempo and mileage can't compare,try to breath through your nose or if it's colder through a face mask. Yellow glasses can help pick out dips and hollows, and you know some days I just walk, good luck.

Edited by pyeyo on 09/27/2006 22:01:52 MDT.

Hindsight shows I didn't address goretex.
I haven't had much success with goretex or other lined shoes, the only place they make sense to me is sloppy slush, the type of stuff that builds up at curbs and gutters or transitional snow.
Slush seems to have a higher concentration of petrochemicals near roadways which saturate goretex. Dirty goretex wets through. In transitional snow everything is going to get wet anyway, gaiters help a bit but the retention strap under the foot is going to wear very quickly.
I find it easier to use 2 pairs of shoes with a sock combination that keeps my feet dry, rotating to the dry pair every other run. I also use a shoe/boot dryer for my running shoes and any other boot or pac insert I use in the winter.

Browsing the forum for specific info and came across this thread - which has some similarities to what I am looking for.

I run in packed and deep snow as well as snowshoe all winter. In packed snow, a regular trail runner should be fine. In deeper snow I often wear goretex or neoprene socks over my poly liners. I always will wear my OR flex-tex gaiters. On snowshoes I pretty much use the same setup... Icy/very slick conditions may require additional traction devices. Adding 10 or so short, hex-head sheet metal screws to the bottom of a pair of shoes has worked for me. Yax-trax pro worked great for about three runs and then fell apart (after crossing 1-2 short gravel sections).

I'm looking for a solution to keep my feet from freezing off during a particularly long ultramarathon in Minnesota this February. I will most likely be out for 50+ hours, including stops to melt snow, eat, sleep, etc. My normal system won't work at temps that could very well be far below zero... so what to do? I was thinking about trying the NEOS Navigator 5 overboot. Carry it in the pulk sled until my feet are getting cold and then run in them. Also wear them when I stop to take care of business. I hate the thought of 3.5 lbs more in my sled, but I hate the thought of losing toes even more. I do have some old insulated supergaiters that might work instead... Any other ideas out there?????

The Crescent Moon neoprene overbooties look pretty neat as well...
http://www.backcountry.com/store/CMO0016/Crescent-Moon-Neoprene-OverBootie.html?id=xCcPrqw3

Edited by Alekat on 10/16/2006 16:53:15 MDT.

Another direction would be Steger mukluks, these guys are in Minnesota. I wouldn't hesitate to give them a call and talk to them about your needs they have always been real helpful with my stuff.

these guys are in Minnesota

That brings a smile to my face. Back in the days of the air cooled VW engines a guy in Minneapolis had a somewhat successful business improving their heating systems. He decided to see if he could get someone to install his kits in Winnipeg. Everyone he talked to said "You're from Minnesota, what do you know about cold weather?"

Regarding Steger mukluks ... they're made in Ely, MN where they do know a bit about cold weather. It's just down the road from where the coldest recorded MN temp was logged ... -61F IIRC

>The Crescent Moon neoprene overbooties look pretty neat as well...


Interesting--but no sizes? I have something similar that doesn't fit my size 12 shoes so YMMV.

I'm looking for something similar that would fit (or mod to fit) BC touring boots. Problem, of course, is the BC NNN binding's bar and slots. I have a spare pair of OR Brooks Ranger Low Overboots that have a fabric sole. I'm thinking that I might be able to slice out just enough to enable the binding to work, then rim it with elastic or spectra cord.

Have you looked at these? If I get a chance to do any hiking in the snow this winter I am going to try a pair of these.


Kahtoola’s FLIGHTboot

"It’s time to think outside the conventional snowshoe frame… and step into a new paradigm in snow travel. Our FLIGHTboot™ provides plenty of traction for hiking in packed snow conditions without the weight or drawbacks of snowshoes.

This insulated boot slides over your running shoes or other flexible footwear, offering unsurpassed warmth, comfort, and support. When you need flotation for deep snow, simply “click” into the FLIGHTdeck™. You’ll never need to mess around in the cold with straps or buckles again!"

Edited by bfornshell on 10/16/2006 20:38:52 MDT.

I was just looking at the Flightboots this morning. Great concept and would be great for running although not sure they'd be warm enough while stopped. The biggest problem with them? $150!!! Yikes. I'd like to give them a try but not sure I can at that price.

Alec,
You might give Kahtoola a call and ask if anyone buying these is renting them out like at a ski place. You might be able to try a pair and see how they work.

I just hike so I see these as a light overboot for my trail runners that also come with crapoms. I should be able to use something like these to replace a heavier overboot and a set of crampons. I might even get a set of the snow shoes to go with the boot system.

I have a set of
RBH Designs - VaprThrm® Liner Socks that I would wear also and that might also give you the extra warmth you are looking for.

Edited by bfornshell on 10/17/2006 09:07:36 MDT.

Thanks LARRY,
I've done about 1,100 miles on the Appalachian Trail in Nov and Dec. so I get a mix of weather (but no Mosquitos). When it's bare ground I jog along in running shoes. Of course if I'm up to hips in snow you will not see me running. I decided on NEOS Villager's for all conditions inbetween, including keeping the toes warm. This item really worked PERFECT, was very pleased, no problem running in them either........But then one unfortunate problem became apparent, the left one leaked right away soon to be followed by the right overboot. This was in record cold temps (low teens) and snow through the Virginia mountains. It became apparent that I was indeed relying on my gear and wits to stay alive. All literature concerning NEOS states:"waterproof". A couple of months later I called www.Campmor.com and described my experience and the rep in Paramus NJ IMMEDIATELY sent out a new pair. It was a good Campmor Customer Service experience, 5 stars !. So, the update is, I will probably be going back on the Trail this November with the new NEOS (part II), at which point the jury on these things will no longer be "out" and eventually will be posted here for the world to see.

TheThriftstoreMountaineer

Edited by gregdegler on 06/03/2009 13:38:18 MDT.