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Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Climashield COMBAT for MYOG on 09/13/2006 11:31:22 MDT Print View

I have a 5 yard piece of Climashield Combat. I cut a 1 yard square piece to weigh. This piece weighs 2.13oz. If I have time I will make one or more items and take them to Georgia next month and try them on my hike.

In doing a bit of research I have been told that for now I should use the Clo for PG-Delta. The actual Clo for Combat is a bit higher than Delta. The final Clo hasn't been released yet. That is all I know/can say about this for now.






Edited by bfornshell on 09/13/2006 11:36:00 MDT.

Christopher Plesko
(Pivvay) - F

Locale: Rocky Mountains
Re: Climashield COMBAT for MYOG on 09/13/2006 13:10:25 MDT Print View

Enlighten me if you know Bill, is Combat the top dog for climashield?

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Climashield COMBAT for MYOG on 09/13/2006 14:19:59 MDT Print View

Hi Chris,

No, XP is better and maybe the best on the market today. Combat is just available at a lower per sq yard weight. Combat is made at a production spec of 2.0 ounces per sq yard. Delta "today" is made at a production spec of 2.6 oz per sq yard. The Clo for Combat is also lower than XP by 8 to 10% but higher than Delta by a some (?).

What does that mean to me, well, I should be able to make a light weight item for a temp range of 50 degrees or so (?) out of the Combat or my Delta. Then layer it with a heavier weigh item made of XP to take me down below 40 degrees maybe as low as 35 degrees. The low temp for all this is still speculation on my part at this time. It might even be lower.

My old Delta was suppose to be 1.9 oz per sq yard but what I used for my Quilt was 2.21 oz per sq yard. I am still planning on using a lot of Delta. I will be testing my stuff with Delta, Combat and XP over the winter and through the spring rains.

I am following "Ryan's" Cocoon Line ideas for layering the items as you get lower in temperature. I just want to make my own stuff and use the best material that is easy to get. I am trying to look at all this gear as one big system. It all works together as it gets colder outside or in a lot of rain. I am trying to design the gear for my size and hope to get the lowest weigh gear possible. I have the advantage that it only has to satisfy ME.

Edited by bfornshell on 09/13/2006 14:20:40 MDT.

Christopher Plesko
(Pivvay) - F

Locale: Rocky Mountains
Re: Climashield COMBAT for MYOG on 09/13/2006 15:57:06 MDT Print View

Exactly. Making things that only have to satisfy you are fun. Right now I don't face a lot of conditions that stress my down bags. Therefore I'm focusing on a "set" of down bags with synthetic pieces as emergency/extra range gear. I'm curious to try Climashield vs Delta and hear your experiences as well.

Mostly I just want to design (I'm an engineer by degree) and learn to make all my own stuff and I love using the best materials I can get. I don't have to compromise like major manufacturers and I'm willing to pay a premium on small yard amounts to get fun material to play with. In the end 90% or more of my trips are daytrips to weekends. I don't have time away from my job to do the longer stuff at the moment.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Climashield - COMBAT - Quilt on 09/28/2006 21:13:54 MDT Print View

Climashield - COMBAT - Quilt

I made this Quilt to be a liner for my Pertex Quantum Bivy. I was worried that my Polarguard Delta Quilt/Tunic might not be warm enough. I have just the edges to run some home made Silk bias tape around and I am finished.

The weight of this Quilt will be at or just a little over 7 ounces. This Quilt will slide into my Bivy first and then I will get in the Bivy with the PG - Delta Quilt. That is if the temperature is below 55 degrees.

I still need to do the Math on the Clo business. The CS-Combat Clo is a little more that the Clo for the PG-D. The weight of the insulation is about the same for both Quilts so I should end up with a total Clo of a bit over 3 when I use them together.


Bivy laying on Climashield Combat as a pattern to cut the insulation.


Dying the Silk for the Quilt


Getting ready to cut the Silk.


Pinning the Silk to the insulation getting ready to sew.


New CS-Combat Quilt laying over the Bivy.

Edited by bfornshell on 09/28/2006 21:21:30 MDT.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Climashield - COMBAT - Quilt on 09/28/2006 22:09:38 MDT Print View

Bill-Your quilt liner will result in a total clo value up to .3 - .5 higher than the total of the two insulated items. This is a result of the air trapped between the liner and the quilt, assuming the girth of your bivy doesn't compress the quilt / liner.

Even a silk liner sheet (.04 clo), without insulation, will provide this incremental air space insulation of .3 - .5 clo.

Edited by richard295 on 09/28/2006 22:12:36 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Climashield - COMBAT - Quilt on 09/28/2006 23:17:38 MDT Print View

Some number to throw around.

The current Quilt weight is 7.0088 ounces.

This will go up a small amout when I sew the silk bias tape on the edges of the Quilt tomorrow. I have a bit of trimming to do yet and I may be able to hold the Quilt weight to 7 ounces.

The total sq yardage for the Quilt is 1.97 sq yards.

The weight of the Climashield Combat to cover that area is 4.85 ounces. This gives me an average sq yardage for the CS-Combat of 2.46. The 5 yard sample of CS-Combat had a extra thin layer sort of stuck on it. I thought about removing this to get closer to the 2 ounce per sq yard but it would not release easy. I just left it on and the weight came out higher. The good side of this is more insulation per sq yard and a warmer Quilt.

Clo: The clo for CS Combat is not released anywhere but I have been told it was higher the PG-Delta. To keep things simple I am using the PG-D clo of .68. The weight per sq yard of the CS-Combat is 2.46 times (PG-D clo) .68 to give me a number of 1.67. I know this is a low number but that is OK.

The clo number for my PG-Delta Quilt was 1.50.

Adding the clo for the 2 Quilts together gives me a total clo number of 3.17.

Taking Richard number of .3 I get an add-on number of .95. If I am doing this right I add that to the 3.17 and end up with a new total clo number of 4.12. I know this may be a "best case" number but with that high a number I should be good to somewhere below 40 (F) degrees.

Testing will give me a better answer to all this. I don't expect it to be that cold next month while I am in Georgia but it might get down to around 45 (F) degrees. My plans are to go back up to Georgia in Dec 2006 or Jan - Feb 2007. I want to do a longer hike and more testing in some colder weather. I may as far north as the Smokies to find colder weather.

Edited by bfornshell on 09/28/2006 23:21:23 MDT.

Mark Larson
(mlarson) - MLife

Locale: Southeast USA
Re: Climashield - COMBAT - Quilt on 09/29/2006 07:52:57 MDT Print View

Bill, I expect it will easily get down to 45 when you arrive over here. As you know, Suches is just down the hill from Woody Gap, so it's a good spot to get a guess on the weather for the stretch of trail you'll be on.

I like to look at Weather.com's "Monthly Planner" for the area I'll be in (I linked to the Suches data in this case). That page has a forecast for a couple weeks out, and gives historical averages for further in the future. The numbers should help give a better prediction.

It looks like your whole system is coming together very nicely. I think I'll be out on the GA AT a couple times next month, so I'll keep an eye out for the guy with the teeny-tiny pack. Thanks for sharing all this info.
-Mark

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Climashield - COMBAT - Quilt on 09/29/2006 08:29:20 MDT Print View

Mark,
Thanks for the Weather link to Suches. I have bookmarked it. I have the same link to Blairsville and the temperatures are about the same. I hope it does get down into the low "40's" overnight while I am there.