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Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Sub 2-lb October Hike on 09/10/2006 23:21:29 MDT Print View

I have been working on several different gear lists.

1. Sub 2-lb.
2. Sub 3-lb.
3. Sub 4-lb.
4. Sub 5-lb.

The difference between the four lists is mainly do to the weather/temperature range expected.

When I travel up to GA in October I will be staying very near the AT and may have as much as 4 or 5 days before the 2 hikes that I have planned. I will have a chance to do a few, 1 or 2 over-night, hikes to check out my gear and see what I need to stay warm/dry etc. Then I will pick my gear and do a 40 mile solo hike with as light a gear list as the weather will allow. I am shooting for a Sub 2-lb hike for the 40 mile hike.

The 40 mile Hike will include some of the best - to hate - trail. The AT Approach Trail to Springer Mtn and then on North to Neels Gap.

The other hike will be what is called the Georgia Loop. It is about 65 miles but will add a few side trips. With the side trips the hike may be up to 80 miles.

I am on a liquid diet so I have almost no need for cooking/food related gear. I will take a couple of Esbit tablets in case I need to built a fire for some reason but expect to eat no hot food.

My pack will be custom made (by me) for the load I carry. Cuben material and maybe not a conventional pack style. For a really light gear list how much pack/volume do you really need.

======

Draft - Not Complete
Last Update - 26 Sept 2006

Sub 2-lb Gear List: Temp Range Down to 45 degrees. Hike the AT Approach Trail to Springer Mtn and on to Neels Gap. Total hike about 40 miles.

1- PACK - SHELTER - SLEEPING: As of - 26 Sept 2006


BackpackCuben Pack- 1.5
Pack liner- Cuben - (To Make) ?

Sleeping pad Balloon Bed (12 to 19 balloons & Kilt Shell) 1.96

Shelter Poncho/Tarp 2.80
Shelter support (Using trekking poles) 0.0
Stakes(6) for Poncho/Tarp 1.23
Guylines for Poncho/Tarp 1.42

Sleeping bagQuilt/Tunic - counted as clothing 0.0

Bivy Sack 2.82
Ground Sheet GG Polycryo Cloth (m) 1.65

Total weight in pack - 13.4oz

2 - CLOTHING: As of 26 Sept 2006 pm

Kilt Home-Made Kilt 1.9-w
Base layer top Patagonia #2 Wool Crew 6.7-w
Base layer bottom Pat. #2 Wool Bottoms 6.34-w
Base Layer bottom Sahalie-Ultralight Tights (?) 1.6
Insulating top PG-D Tunic/Quilt 7.82-w
Insulating bottoms None 0.0
Raingear (hard shell) top Poncho/Tarp 0.0
Raingear (hard shell) bottoms None 0.0
Waterproof glove shells Cuben Mitts(?) 0.37-p
Windgear Use Poncho 0.0
Windgear bottoms Cuben Chaps ? -p
Warm gloves Possumdown 1.37-p
Warm hat ? 0.0-?
Sun hat ? 0.0-?
Neck protection ? ?-?
Socks-wear Wright-Sock 1/4 2.77-w
Spare socks Wright-Sock 1/4 1.68-p
Trail Runners TNF Ultra 102's 28.34-w
Clothing stuff sack None 0.0
Tilley LT6 Hat 3.25
Total weight in pack - 3.05oz

Total worn - 57.12oz

3 - COOKING - WATER: As of 26 Sept 2006 pm

Stove N/A 0.0
Windscreen N/A 0.0
Fuel bottle N/A 0.0
Matches/lighter Strike anywhere matches 0.2
Cook pot N/A 0.0
Cook pot lid N A 0.0
Drinking mug 12oz Soda Can 0.42
Utensils Home-Made Ti Spoon 0.23
Food storage bag Zip Locks(?) ?
Bear bag hang system N/A 0.0
1 Liter Platy "bottle" 0.78
Platy 2 Reservoir 1.13
Water treatment Aquamira in mini bottles ? 1.0
Esbit Tablets 1 each(.5oz) 0.5
Total weight in pack 4.26oz

4 - MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS: As of - 26 Sept 2006 pm

Flashlight/headlamp 1 red and 1 white photon 0.4
Trekking poles (2) Home-Made Trekking Pole 6.4 Headnet (if necessary add 0.33oz) 0.0
Bug dope Out of Bug Season 0.0 Sun Aloe Gator,
Blistex Ultra 1.0
Toothbrush toothbrush? 0.2
Toothpaste (use Dr. Bronner's) 0.0
Alcohol hand gel Dr. Bronner's soap 0.2
Toilet paper 8 squares per day 0.5
Potty trowel Home-Made Ti 0.31
Blister & minor wound care 2.3
Whistle 0.1
Firestarting kit 0.2
Repair (included in with first aid) 0.0 Sunglasses on cord 1.5
Watch Suunto (?) 2.5
Compass (on watch) 0.0
Maps and permits 1.0
Camera (?) ?
Journal kit (?) ?

Total in pack - 5.21oz
Total worn - 11.4oz

Sub Total (1+2+3+4)
Total in pack - 25.916 oz
Total worn - 68.6 oz

5 - CONSUMABLES: As of - 26 Sept 2006 pm

Food 2.5 days at 1.25 lbs 50.0 / 4-lb?
Water 1 L average carried 32.0 / 2-lb?
Fuel No Hot Meals - Liquid Diet 0.0
Medicine ?
Total - 6-lb


6 - TOTAL: (As of 26 Sept 2006 pm)

Total in Pack - 25.92 oz (Weight available for (?) items "in pack" = 6.08 oz) (Sub 2-lb = less than 32 oz)

Wear / Carry - 68.6 oz

Consume - 96.00 oz
----------------
190.52 oz

Total Hike Weight (Skin-out weight) ... 11 lb / 14.52 oz (As of - 26 Sept 2006)

Total Pack Weight - Start Day 1 ... 7 lb / 9.92 oz

Edited by bfornshell on 09/26/2006 21:54:48 MDT.

Peter McDonough
(crazypete) - F

Locale: Above the Divided Line
Groundcloth on 09/10/2006 23:26:34 MDT Print View

Why the ground cloth if you have the bivy??

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Sub 2-lb October Hike on 09/10/2006 23:52:43 MDT Print View

The ground cloth is to protect to Cuben Fiber bottom of the Bivy if necessary.

Mike Barney
(eaglemb) - F

Locale: AZ, the Great Southwest!
Sub 7 oz October Hike on 09/11/2006 21:19:31 MDT Print View

Sub 2 lbs of gear is pretty impressive. I remember doing sub 7 oz outings in Sept/Oct and March/April in East Texas many years ago. Biggest difference was the word "Survival" was in the description, and you could only take a pocket knife. Shelter and bedding was what you made out of grasses and limbs, food was what you caught or picked. Now your closing in but taking some convieniences. A big salute to Bill!

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Sub 2-lb October Hike on 09/11/2006 23:04:25 MDT Print View

Mike,
Thanks for the comments.

With today really light fabric and other light material, gear can be make much lighter than a few years ago.

I am working on a small pack for my Sub 2-lb load and it is going to be really light. I don't want to speculate yet but I think less than 1 ounce. It will be made out of Cuben fiber, what else. The total pack weight at the start of day one should be around 8 pounds with 1 liter of water.

I am still under my 32 ounce mark by 7.88 oz. When I add everything I need If I have 5.61 oz left I want to add my gravity water filter.

Peter McDonough
(crazypete) - F

Locale: Above the Divided Line
Re: Sub 2-lb October Hike on 09/12/2006 19:52:37 MDT Print View

Yes but if you bring a 1.5 oz groundcloth and add it to the .86 oz you need for bottom protection, that gives you a total of 2.36 oz. Say you used .86/.35 yards cuben(2.457 yds), it seems as if you are wasting your time with the cuben product. Why not use spinnaker instead for a lighter or equal weight system(.9*2.457=2.211 oz) instead?? You also wouldn't have to deal with an additional piece of equipment.

Sam Haraldson
(sharalds) - MLife

Locale: Gallatin Range
Re: Sub 2-lb October Hike on 09/13/2006 14:05:34 MDT Print View

Bill, granted the bivy you just finished is a stellar looking creation but Pete makes a valid point. Future projects could involve a stronger "floored" bivy and removal of the ground cloth.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Sub 2-lb October Hike on 09/13/2006 14:29:21 MDT Print View

Sam,
I agree with both you and Pete. At this time I just don't know how much the Cuben floor can take. I will find out so for a time the ground sheet is a backup.

I also have Cuben in 2 heavier weights. One has 4 fiber cords (about 6oz per sq yard) and one has 4 fiber cords and a stronger layer on one side (about 1oz per sq yard).

We are only taking about an extra 1.5oz or less with the ground sheet and I can use it for several different things if I need to.

Sam Haraldson
(sharalds) - MLife

Locale: Gallatin Range
Re: Sub 2-lb October Hike on 09/13/2006 18:24:24 MDT Print View

Absolutely, Bill. For testing purposes an ounce and a half is hardly anything to be concerned about. However, in the grand scheme of things that will be big. Only time and testing will tell.

Sunny Waller
(dancer) - M

Locale: Southeast USA
Re: Re: Sub 2-lb October Hike on 09/14/2006 07:45:36 MDT Print View

Bill...How do you handle your Gatewood Cape in windy conditions when wearing it as raingear??

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Sub 2-lb October Hike on 09/14/2006 09:31:30 MDT Print View

Hi Sunny,
I don't have a Gatewood Cape. I do use a home made Cuben Poncho/Tarp. I wear it "military" style, that is with my pack over the poncho. I also tie it around my waist. This keeps the wind from blowing it (more or less) away from my body. I can adjust the tightness if it is warm. Everything in my pack is in a (to make) water proof Cuben pack liner or on me under the poncho.

Sunny Waller
(dancer) - M

Locale: Southeast USA
Re: Sub 2-lb October Hike on 09/14/2006 13:42:27 MDT Print View

Excellent...thanks for the picture..keep us posted on your departure date...the approach trail to springer is one of my favorite hikes..unless its early in the morning and I want some great coffee..then I go up the Hike-In trail instead and stop in for a cup. The view from the Hike In trail is wonderful. I would love to see your rig..hopefully I will see you on the trail :)

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Sub 2-lb October Hike on 09/24/2006 19:11:31 MDT Print View

Sub 2-lb Gear List: Temp Range Down to 45 degrees. Hike the AT Approach Trail to Springer Mtn and on to Neels Gap. Total hike about 40 miles.

Draft Update - 26 Sept 2006

1- PACK - SHELTER - SLEEPING:


BackpackCuben Pack- 1.5
Pack liner- Cuben - (To Make) ?

Sleeping pad Balloon Bed (12 to 19 balloons & Kilt Shell) 1.96

Shelter Poncho/Tarp 2.80
Shelter support (Using trekking poles) 0.0
Stakes (6) for Poncho/Tarp 1.23
Guylines for Poncho/Tarp 1.42

Sleeping bagQuilt/Tunic - counted as clothing 0.0

Bivy Sack 2.82
Ground Sheet GG Polycryo Cloth (m) 1.65

Total weight in pack - 13.40 oz

Edited by bfornshell on 09/26/2006 21:28:44 MDT.

Kevin Sawchuk
(ksawchuk) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Northern California
Re: Sub 2-lb October Hike on 09/25/2006 14:21:08 MDT Print View

The gear you've designed is very innovative. The overall kit weight is admirably light. However as we drop below the sub-4-5# weight range and find "multi-use gear" the meaning of a sub-2-3# baseweight becomes blurred.

Are you really going to be wearing a wool shirt and pants plus your insulated piece most of the day? It's easy to classify things as "worn" when they'll really spend much of the time in your pack. A "skin out weight" becomes a more accurate measure of gear when you're using much of your stuff for multiple purposes.

That said, these are some very interesting ideas especially for those who push the limits.

Edited by ksawchuk on 09/25/2006 17:35:47 MDT.

Sam Haraldson
(sharalds) - MLife

Locale: Gallatin Range
Re: Sub 2-lb October Hike on 09/25/2006 19:18:48 MDT Print View

In my opinion we shouldn't discuss this weight vs. that weight vs. the other weight, but rather embrace new and interesting ideas that ultimately bring weights down whatever the part of the body they are worn on or carried on.

Granted, yes the "skin out" weight is then the most practical weight (and the one I use on my list) but once again it seems like sweating the small stuff.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Sub 2-lb October Hike on 09/25/2006 19:32:43 MDT Print View

Kevin,

Thanks for your comments and questions.

I will be in Georgia for another hike of 65 to 80 miles before I do the Sub 2-lb hike. The first hike will be with about the same gear list but also will be used as a test to see what I can get by with for the Sub 2-lb hike. I will have a better idea of the weather and tweak my Sub 2-lb gear list just before I start. If it is warm enough I will drop a few items for something lighter such as the long-underwear items or not even take them. If it is cooler then I may need to add something and may have to go up to a Sub 3-lb gear list.

I agree with you that if I have to carry it in my pack then it does not count as "worn".

You may have noticed that I am still under the 32 ounce mark by a little over 6 ounces. I am worried that I may have to carry the Quilt/Tunic in my pack and will give up something to add it to my pack weight and still stay under 32 ounces. I need 7.65 ounces if I have to pack the Quilt. I could also stay in a shelter at night as there are 7 shelters along my 40 mile hike route. That would save me a couple of ounces and or I could use fresh sticks for tent stakes and give up the Ti Tent Stakes. I have a few options but it will not kill me to up-grade to a Sub 3-lb gear list.

The weather will be biggest deciding factor and what I find out in the first hike.

No games with where the weight is at, on me or in my pack - no gray area. My current "Skin-out Weight" first foot into my hike is 7 pounds 9.65 ounces with one liter of water. I would just call it under 8 pounds as of today.

I am walking a few miles each day with 8.5 pounds in my new 1.5 ounce Cuben pack.

Sunny Waller
(dancer) - M

Locale: Southeast USA
Re: Sub 2-lb October Hike on 09/26/2006 09:23:50 MDT Print View

Bill..fall weather the North Ga mountains usually kicks in either halloween weekend or the first weekend in November. You can go hiking in shorts and wake up the next day freezing. This has been the pattern for as long as I can remember. As kids we either baked or froze when we went trick or treating. I have taken groups backpacking and camping for over 25 years and have learned to tell everybody to include an insulating layer around those weekends. After we get this initial cold jolt it usually warms back up again and stays that way for awhile.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Sub 2-lb October Hike on 09/26/2006 09:51:41 MDT Print View

Hi Sunny,

Thanks for the information.

I lived in Dahlonega from 1989 till summer of 2000. I know the weather can change quick. The standard joke in Dahlonega during the winter was that if it rained in Dahlonega it snowed in Suches. Sometimes it did. I have the advantage of knowing the area and will be there for a week or so before the Sub 2-lb hike.

We had a low where I live in San Antonio this morning of 58 degrees with a nice breeze. I got up and put on my Patagonia # 2 Wool crew and bottoms a pair of socks like I will be wearing and got under my new Quilt. I was warm enough and then got inside my new Bivy. I was warmer and took a long nap.

If it is cooler in GA next week I will be able to see just how cold that combination will work before I do the hike. I will add a knit cap and my Possumdown gloves.

I am taking several items to test out on my first longer hike and then use what ever I think I need for the weather on the Sub 2.

Sunny Waller
(dancer) - M

Locale: Southeast USA
Re: Sub 2-lb October Hike on 09/26/2006 12:29:48 MDT Print View

How noisy is the material you are using? I just purchased a Spinn Squall and really don't like the noise it makes. I decided to go with my flat tarp this weekend and hopefully will evolve to something much smaller like a poncho.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Sub 2-lb October Hike on 09/26/2006 12:34:47 MDT Print View

Sunny,
Cuben is quite next to Spinn type materials and easier to work with.