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Montane eVENTĀ® Quick-Fire and Superfly and Other Light eVENT Jackets
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E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
eVENT durability; pit zips on 09/11/2006 22:29:39 MDT Print View

Before I commit to an eVENT jacket and eVENT gaiters, does anyone have any conclusive information on problems with eVENT maintaining waterproofness?

If I find my nearly ideal light shell without pit zips, I will most certainly cut pit zips into it (at about a 2 ounce weight penalthy).

Roland Hackenberg
(Robson) - MLife
eVENT on 09/11/2006 23:31:13 MDT Print View

I just came back from a 212 mile hike in Scotland and had one day where it was pouring, i mean really pouring. Imagine taking a shower for about 3 hours. Never experienced something like that befor.
We had 2 eVENT jackets. IntegralDesgin rain jacket and the Montane Air eVENT Jacket. The BOTH leaked. The ID leaked through some seams around the pocket. The Montane leaked through the pocket, the zipper facing as well as thru the hem botton. It was not really funny. No jacket was seam sealed.
At home I tested them again in the shower, coz I thought there might have been some rain coming thru the collar, so I tested it with a 10 minute shower, result was the same. I sent the Montane one back, haven't got any results from their side yet. I seam sealed the ID but haven't tested yet, but I'm getting a bit unsure about eVENT.

Best
Roland

P.S. I'm not a native English speaker...

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: eVENT on 09/11/2006 23:57:06 MDT Print View

Hi Roland:

Thanks for sharing. Wow, only 1 day of rain? I once spent three weeks backpacking around the UK -- it rained every day -- except for the very last day, when it was only cloudy. I never saw the sun! But luckily, most of the rain was more drizzles than downpours.

Back to the jackets. If the rain seeped through because the seams were not sealed or taped properly, then this may be the fault of production -- and not the fault of the eVENT material itself. Now, if water seeped through different areas of the fabric, then that would be different. What do you think?

Roland Hackenberg
(Robson) - MLife
eVENT on 09/12/2006 01:33:40 MDT Print View

Hi Benjamin,
yes we were lucky, and the more since the downpour was on our day off and we just went for a dayhike. Besides that we had one day of rain, but stopped in the afternoon, rest of the trip was perfect hiking weather.
about the jackets. Well in the meantime I'm pretty sure that it was a "seam-thing", but on the hike i just wondered why both of us got soaked. I mean I had the ID already last year while hiking for a week in rain and it worked fine. I'll see and will post what Montane says.
best
Roland

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: eVENT on 09/12/2006 07:22:16 MDT Print View

I recently returned from a 1 1/2 month expedition along the Gulf of Alaska in the SE. It rained for 16 days straight before we had the first day of sunlight. Again it rained most days after that.

For the second year in a row, I used my Lowe Alpine eVENT rain jacket/pants for protection and never experienced a drop of moisture inside.

The reliability of the eVENT membrane is one question. Each manufacturers fabrication pratice and QA is another.

D P
(dpenney) - F
Re: Re: eVENT on 09/12/2006 11:28:30 MDT Print View

Does anyone have any experience with 66north's eVent products? Overpriced to begin with, but decent deals in their outlet section. No weights specified on the website either, although claims to being "lightweight" often referenced.

E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
eVENT maintaining waterproofness; seams on 09/12/2006 11:35:32 MDT Print View

I think Richard nailed it - the question simply is whether eVENT itself (not seams) maintains waterproofness over time. Does anyone have any information on this?

Bad seams will leak in any material, Gore-Tex, Patagonia proprietary, Montbell proprietary, etc.

Welded seams are good that way, far more waterproof than sewn seams.

Chris Jackson
(chris_jackson) - F
Re: ID Event jacket leaked at the pocket on 09/12/2006 21:27:00 MDT Print View

Water can leak into the pocket of the ID event jacket via two routes. First, some of the exterior pocket seams are not taped. Second, the ID logo is sewn onto the pocket, and the sewing is not taped.

All the interior seams of the jacket are taped, so the interior ought to remain dry even when the pocket gets wet.

David Morrow
(drmoreau) - F
Re: Montane eVENTĀ® Quick-Fire and Superfly and Other Light eVENT Jackets on 09/13/2006 11:40:08 MDT Print View

eVent is a teflon film laminate applied to a synthetic base fabric, such as nylon. The weight of the overall fabric is usually dictated by the nylon part - the event film wieghs very little. Usually a scrim, or third protective layer, is added to the inner part of the garment to minimize abrasion. Thus, the fabric is three layers. An alternative is to omit the scrim but then a drop-in liner is necessary to reduce tearing and abrasion of the teflon film. A two layer eVent jacket without this protection would never hold up for backpacking.

Showers Pass makes a three-layer eVent jacket using 40 denier nylon shell fabric, as the fibres are not as tightly woven as 20 denier, so the garment breathes better. The Showers Pass Elite weighs about 13.5 ounces in a large, and the hood is an extra 2 ounces. We opted for the 40 denier nylon instead of the lighter 20 denier because we wanted performance (moisture transmission) and durablity.

hope this helps,

Dave Morrow
Showers Pass Clothing

David Morrow
(drmoreau) - F
Re: Patagonia and eVENT on 09/13/2006 11:42:20 MDT Print View

eVent does not license their product to everyone who wants it. It took us a year or so to qualify - they are very strict.

Dave Morrow
Showers Pass Clothing

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
Patagonia can get anything it wants on 09/13/2006 12:14:52 MDT Print View

Patagonia could have gotten eVENT if it wanted to---it opted not to. You will hear various reasons why.

Chris Jackson
(chris_jackson) - F
Re: Showers Pass Elite event jacket on 09/13/2006 14:56:34 MDT Print View

Dave, my impression is that most peakbaggers prefer a rain jacket with an integrated hood, particularly for cold conditions. Also, many readers of this UL forum are prepared to trade some durability, features and breathability for reduced weight, hence the popularity of the patagonia specter (6.5 oz) and OR zealot (~7 oz). Some want pitzips, others don't. ID make several minimalist jackets from 3.0 oz/yd Event fabric. An UL jacket made out of the lightest Event (2.5 oz/yd ?) might fill an UL niche market.

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Re: Pit zips ARE usefull on 09/16/2006 21:39:32 MDT Print View

I really like that this topic is getting the respect it deserves.
I have 2 event jackets and they are both awesome.

PIT ZIPPS, you don't need them on an Event Jacket. Completely unnecessary. With all of the comments about EVENT, there are a few things that haven't really been said. There are a few strong and weak, (if you want to call it that), points when dealing with event.

1. Event works amazingly on both being waterproof, breathable, and has excellent wicking ability, but...

2. The fabric is too breathable. It is great for more strenuous exercise and warmer climates. Because of the breathability issues though, if it is cold and windy or if you are not being active and it is windy, it gets very cold with the jacket on.

So if you use the fabric for what it's intended for it works better than you can imagine.
In the hiking community, this fabric does not replace a wind shell, when necessary like a Gore-Tex jacket might.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Pit Zips Not Necessary... on 09/16/2006 22:28:20 MDT Print View

Aaron:

So we can get a better understanding, can you describe some of your hiking conditions that convinced you that pit zips are unnecessary for an eVENT jacket? Thanks in advance!

Edited by ben2world on 09/16/2006 22:29:37 MDT.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: Cold eVent on 09/16/2006 23:02:29 MDT Print View

"2. The fabric is too breathable. It is great for more strenuous exercise and warmer climates. Because of the breathability issues though, if it is cold and windy or if you are not being active and it is windy, it gets very cold with the jacket on.

I agree with this. My Superfly is colder than my Montane LiteSpeed. You can actually feel cold air seeping through the eVent fabric. When it is windy and cold I always wear both the Superfly and the LiteSpeed around camp just so that I can retain heat. For me the Superfly is mainly a rain shield; I don't use it for warmth. Pit zips just seem redundant to me on such a breathable fabric.

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
eVENT and pitzips on 09/16/2006 23:24:16 MDT Print View

You guys just don't exert enough effort. I took an eVENT jacket (ID) up and over Horse Creek Pass in the Sierra during rainy conditions last year. It got pretty clammy and I wanted pitzips. My Paclite Goretex jacket w/ pitzips (Golite Phantom) actually would have been more comfortable under similar conditions. Ironic, because I have noticed the air infiltration effect before.
Doubly ironic because although eVENT passes and wicks moisure better than any other W/B, it doesn't do it very much better than the latest iteration of Paclite.

Edited by kdesign on 09/16/2006 23:40:02 MDT.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: eVENT and pitzips on 09/16/2006 23:50:04 MDT Print View

Kevin, I had to laugh when I read about the level of my effort. I guess I wasn't very clear in my writing. I meant to say that the eVent is cold when standing still and sitting about in camp. When walking the Superfly is great! Maybe I sweat less than you do, but I usually have no trouble with sweat build up on cold days while climbing even very hard alpine trails. On warmer days, at least here in Japan where humidity is always high, I usually get so hot in anything that I wear that I will simply let myself get wet in my base layer and not wear any rain gear, except a rain hat. The heat I generate very quickly dries out my clothes. If I start to get a little cold I will put on my Superfly to warm up a little and keep the rain off me.

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Re: Re: Pit Zips Not Necessary... on 09/17/2006 14:15:00 MDT Print View

Benjamin,
Just agreeing with the others. When it's windy and you are standing around, it gets cold.
Every time I wear the jacket, its ventilation is soo good that just the movement of my arms and body is enough to keep the jacket breathing as good as it needs to. Of course of all the hiking I have done in this jacket, I have not been in clammy conditions with it at all. Every time it's rained it's cold and windy for me. If in different conditions, I could see where Pit-Zips would help.

Kevin
You stated

(Doubly ironic because although EVENT passes and wicks moisture better than any other W/B, it doesn't do it very much better than the latest iteration of Paclite).

I also have a jacket with the latest iteration of Paclite.
I got it to take the place of my Event jacket and wind shirt when I do the JMT next year.
I only pray that I don't have to wear it in the rain if it's hot out. Although the moisture wicking is desent, I think my Event jacket does the job at least 5 times better.
Sorry, I just believe that Event is far superior to any other fabric out there.
The only thing that comes close is the Schoeller Dynamic fabric, but it locks dirt into its fabric way too easily.

Edited by awsorensen on 09/17/2006 14:17:46 MDT.

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
Is eVENT as good as "they" say? on 09/17/2006 15:10:05 MDT Print View

Just not my experience, Aaron. Nor do lab or field tests seem to bear out that eVENT is many times more "breathable" than say, Packlite III. There's so much hyperbole given over to the performance of W/B fabrics (endemic from the early days of Goretex)---- please not to add to it. Universal statements like "eVENT is better than any other other fabic out there" tend to go down in flames. Given a specific situational criteria, eVENT (or another fabric--- insert trademarked name here)a case might be made for it's superiority in something. Also, I suspect terms need to be defined--we're talking breathability and wicking and moisture transmission which are not necessarily interchangable ideas--- so perhaps we're talking past each other.

As to the pit-zip matter---thank goodness Montane at least pays attention to core-venting in their latest eVENT jacket designs, even if it's not in the form pit-zips. Their mesh backed oversize pockets are a reasonable alternative for those of us who feel that a front zip plus the eVENT fabric itself is not enough in the way of venting options when one is forced to wear a hardshell.

In short--- we will just have to agree to disagree.

Edited by kdesign on 09/17/2006 15:15:44 MDT.

Michael Martin
(MikeMartin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: North Idaho
Re: Re: Cold eVent on 09/17/2006 15:25:54 MDT Print View

>> "2. The fabric is too breathable. It is great for more strenuous exercise and warmer climates. Because of the breathability issues though, if it is cold and windy or if you are not being active and it is windy, it gets very cold with the jacket on.

I agree with this. My Superfly is colder than my Montane LiteSpeed.

>>

Miguel, Aaron --

I have to agree with Kevin on this one. I use both an ID eVent shell, and a Montane LiteSpeed -- both superb shells fo their intended purposes. But, eVent has much lower air permeability than the Microlight fabric used in the LiteSpeed. eVent is basically impenetrable to anything short of a gale force wind. Plus, eVent is a heavier fabric and as such, flaps less in the wind, causing less "bellows effect" convective heat loss than Microlight. So, all else being equal, an eVent shell is going to be warmer than a Microlight one. (Except perhaps under high exertion where Microlight's higher air permeability is better able to prevent moisture accumulation.)

If you are more chilled standing around in an eVent shell than a Microlight one, I would suggest that it is due to other factors. I'd look at the garment design first: assuming your insulating layer is not being compressed, snug fit = warm and loose fit = cold. I'd also look at areas where air may infiltrate -- waist, neck and wrist openings, zippers, etc.

If you are more chilled standing around in an eVent shell *after* exercise than a less breathable WP/B shell, I suspect that the eVent shell is doing its job and you are experiencing evaporative heat loss from moisture accumulated in your clothing. You can't criticize the fabric for doing its job. A less breathable shell would only retain the moisture longer and create other problems.

Cheers,

-Mike

Edited by MikeMartin on 09/17/2006 15:38:16 MDT.