I need to buy an insulation layer that is more substantial than a fleece. I will give you guys a quick breakdown of what I normally wear, and maybe you can make a suggestion for what I need.

I wear a sleeveless base layer, a midweight longsleeve layer, mountain hardwear "monkey man" fleece, and either a wind-jacket or rain shell depending on weather. This gets me comfortable down to 32, and bearable down to 20 or so.

What I want is to be comfortable doing camp chores down to 5 or 0 degrees (fahrenheit). I have been looking at a few jackets to use to replace the fleece, but have had trouble comparing them. Maybe you guys can point out the differences between them and/or suggest something to get the job done? The jackets I have looked at include:

North Face Diez - $228
North Face Thunder - $228
North Face Elysium - $248
Western Mountaineering Flight Jacket - $249
MontBell Alpine Light Down Parka - $184
Nunatak Skaha Down Sweater - $329
Feathered Friends Helios - $259

They all seem fairly similar to be. The one odd man out is the Nunatak, which is fully baffled and $100 more than the others. Any advice or recommendations?

I would add a wind shirt which one can use year around. In winter it acts as a nice wind-break/semi-vapor barrier keeping in the heat.
A windshirt fleece combo option is the Marmot DriClime vest or full sleeve. (a google will bring them up at MooseJaw.com)

Golite windshirt: http://www.golite.com/product/proddetail.aspx?s=1&p=AM1119

A similar option is the No-Sweat Sweat shirt from Warmlite which is basically a non-breathable windshirt with a soft thin lining that makes it comfortable over bare skin.

http://warmlite.com/vapor-barrier-clothing

Wind shirts are terrific gear. They do not take up much room when not in use. I often have mine stuffed in a pocket for easy access..

Edited by rambler on 12/13/2010 09:27:38 MST.

The FF Helios is significantly warmer than any of the other garments listed, though I'm not so familiar with the TNF jackets. With a fill weight of 8 oz., it's warmth/weight is pretty impressive, though you may not need a jacket this warm. Seems I recall from one of Richard Nisley's posts the Helios will maintain thermo-neutral state in an average male down to 2*F, while the other jackets mentioned are in another category of (lesser)warmth.

Okay, now I will try to answer your question!

Patagonia DAS Parka.

I like that it is long enough to go below the waist and that it is not down.

I have a Golite clone that they no longer carry, so that is why I like the Patagonia model.

Hopefully you could find a similar type parka at a lower price, but I have not regretted spending extra $$$ on Patagonia gear.

Note the reviews here:

http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/shop/product_Patagonia-Men-s-DAS-Parka_10088700____?cm_mmc=PPC-_-GoogleProductAds-_-na-_-Patagonia-Men-s-DAS-Parka&ad_id=GoogleProductAds

Edited by rambler on 12/13/2010 09:40:25 MST.

somthing with 7+ oz of 800 down fill ... or a combination of jackets

Thanks Eric, for an answer with measurable properties! I realize that a lot of the gear on the market can be used in a wide range of activities and temperatures, and that is part of the problem. People buy stuff and use it, but then they all promote their item as being 'the one' for the task, regardless of whether or not it is 'the best suited' for the task. Numbers are numbers and are hard to argue with.

GOOGLE "Softie Snugpak" and go to the military section. Look at the "Sleeka Original" or "Reversable" jacket.

This proprietary synthetic insulation is so good that the British military special operations groups use it.

Other parkas have longer tails which your might like as well.

Edited by Danepacker on 12/13/2010 12:47:15 MST.

Tyler,

The only garment that you listed which meets your requirements is the FF Hooded Helios; it is also is the lightest jacket available for your temperature target. Additional alternatives that meet your requirements , but aren't quite as weight efficient, include the FF Volant, Nunatak Kobuk, and MB Permafrost.

Being partial to Montbell products, I have lots of their stuff and not so much from other manufacturers. Given that, I will only speak to the MB products and note that I agree with Eric. At only 4.3 oz of 800 down, the Alpine Light would be too light to provide comfort at 0 F. However, if you upgraded, for only $15 more for the Frost Line Down Parka, you'll get 6.7oz of 800! The downside is that an additional 10 oz total is added to this parka because a different(heavier)fabric is used. No big deal, really, as I expect my winter kit to be heavier than the one for summer, and it's still a killer deal compared to other parkas in this category. Happy Trails!

Richard, I have definitely decided on the Helios jacket by Feathered Friends. If for around camp, I guess the hood would probably be quite nice to have? I only have a hood on my rain jacket and have never owned any other hooded garments. So yeah, I think the Hooded Helios with the NanoSphere fabric will be my choice.

Feathered Friends seems to have some sizing issues when it comes to fitting tall skinny folks, so the Helios might be out!! I really do like that Hooded Helios, though... So, I started looking at similar items, but I still have a few questions- are these jackets all similar in terms of warmth? I can't find stats on how much down fill is in the WM and MH ones, but I'm assuming they are probably +/- 1 oz. of each other

Feathered Friends Helios - 8 oz 850+ fill, 15 oz total weight
Mountain Hardwear Phantom - ?? oz 800 fill, 15 oz total weight
Western Mountaineering Meltdown - ?? oz 850+ fill, 17 oz total weight (has hood)

Any additional thoughts on those jackets, or more that are similar?

I don't feel bad about this because well it is a UL forum.

If you plan to only wear it around camp there is always this option:
http://gossamergear.com/wp/support/how-to-go-lighter/shave-a-few-more-grams

It should be under "wearable insulation"

Might not work for you though.