They way I see it, no apologies needed! Some people are either not too handy with the search function or don't feel like messing with it. Plus, it is good to get some of this information back up to the top of the list so it is easy to find. I wasn't even looking for it, but I learned some cool alternatives to my current methods! I'm sure other people will find (or have already found) this simply by browsing, and learned something along the way. Enjoy your outings and stay safe!

Kendall, subway bags make good VBL liners. I've had them last for up to 10 days worth of trips. Trim them to the level of your outer, insulating sock so they don't flop around.

Tyler,

I really appreciate that.

Thanks Dave. I live about a block from Subway. Guess I'll make it part of my holiday diet. Hahaha!

Kendall - I just noticed this thread and would like to chime in on another idea for keeping your feet warm and dry. I use Inov8 310's for 3 seasons, but when I'm in snow I switch to my Keen Growlers. Keeping the shoe itself dry makes a BIG difference. I wear a liner sock and an outer wool-blend sock from Costco. Plus MLD gaiters. That's all I need. Mr. B and I are out in snow all winter long, usually 2 days a week, sometimes 3. When I can find someone to actually backpack in the snow with me, I still use the same sock and boot system. It's simple and it works well for me.

Have fun with your snow adventures!

Primary stove: Hobo Stove and I need a back up for down to -25 F. Someone told me the I can get a special blend of fuel canister for my MSR Pocket Rocket. Has anyone heard of that? I emailed MSR and have not received an answer back yet.

John - Michigan

there are some canisters that have a little better mix for winter camping, but -25F w/ your pocket rocket- probably not

in addition to a better mix, you'll need the ability to invert the canister- even then you'd need to warm the canister significantly in those temps (some use a margarine tub filled w/ warm water)

@ -25F I think most folks would agree that your probably looking at gas stove, @ 0 (maybe a little lower) an inverted canister setup and some warming would work

The only gas that will work at -25F is pure propane and you can't get that in the normal screw-on canisters.
If you want to use a pocket rocket (or any canister top stove) you will need to keep the canister above the ambient temperature.
With the normal blend it will work above freezing.
With a 30% propane with 70% ISO-butane blend it will work down to 10F or so, and a bit lower when the canister is full.

Kathleen,

The Growlers look interesting. Do you wear a vbl with them?

Edited by socalpacker on 12/17/2010 10:47:03 MST.

MSR pocket rocket is good down to 20 F, maybe somewhat lower, if you use isobutane, not butane - most fuel is isobutane

Inverted canister below

see Roger Cs article http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/effect_of_cold_on_gas_canisters.html

Kendall - I wear plastic breadbags between the liner and outer sock when it's 10 degrees F or below, mostly because I've read about vbl's here on BPL and thought I should try them. It occurs to me I should do a test with one bag on and one bag off to see if it really helps. I have never needed to wear my Rocky socks as long as I'm wearing gaiters, because the boots are waterproof in addition to being insulated.

Also a correction on my Inov8's for non-snow wear. They're 370's, not 310's.

For snow I have done three things... all of which have worked reasonable well down to 0F (though my feet tend to run warm):

Keen Growler boots with liners and mid-weight wool socks
Inov-8 390 + RBH Vapor Barrier socks (with and without liners)
Inov-8 310 + RBH Vapor Barrier socks with sandwich bag over the socks to keep them from getting wet from the outside.


I would second Allen & Mike's Really Cool Backcountry Ski Book.

--Mark

Having lived most of my life in SoCal and have spent countless weekends in their local mountains when I could not get farther north I have to question the advice for VBL's. For me it just does not get cold enough there to make them worthwhile. At normal winter temps you may find your feet swimming in Subway bags. ;-)

Hey Kendall-

I've used slighly oversized Inov-8 shoes with RBH socks for all of my winter trips for several years now- tent, igloo, and snowcave- with a gaiter over the top. Works amazingly well.

I also live in Washington and on my trips it rarely drops below zero.

The RBH gloves are amazing- you won't believe how warm they keep your digits. But also keepin mind that VB items feel clammy when you wear them and are working hard. It's a trade off.

After my last trip, I've been looking hard at 40 Below overboots. Might be another great solution.

Have a great time!

Kendal,

Thought you might like to see this article from BPL Forums, if someone hasn't already brought it to your attention::

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/pitching_tent_snow.html

Thomas
Vancouver, WA

Edited by ftm1776 on 12/17/2010 21:28:01 MST.

Thanks guys. I am looking forward to it, probably in February around my birthday.

Mark, "Allen & Mike's Really Cool Backcountry Ski Book" just arrived from Amazon on Thursday. Can't wait to read it.

Thomas, reading the article today.

Edited by socalpacker on 12/18/2010 12:29:40 MST.

Just as I suspected... a NO GO for extreme temps.for the pocktet rocket. I thought their might have been a different solution or something that I had overlooked. The pocket rocket is just too darn easy to use. Maybe someone should invent a fuel for the pocket rocket to go down to -25 F. Now their is a challange and a great money making proposition. Thanks for the comments.

John

The physics is that if it's gaseous at low temps, then it has excessive pressure at room temperature so the canister has to be excessively heavy to not blow up.

Relatively few ultralight, low temperature backpackers so not a lot of money to be made.

When it burns, the (iso)butane produces a lot more heat than is required to warm it up a little so it evaporates. If you could just get a little of that heat down to the canister, the pocket rocket would work down to very low temperatures.

Like if you had an aluminum windscreen attached to the canister, going up into the flame, some of the heat would conduct down to the canister.

Too much reflected heat = kaBoom, like a Glock filled with liquid propane. I bet a few simple experiments involving thermometers and test burns could find the right way to do it.

Roger C did an article - determined that if canister feels warm to touch you're okay, if it's hot then it may blow up.

So, when you're using such a device just keep checking the canister with your hand and let it cool down as needed, or cut down the size of the aluminum so it conducts less heat,...