I've read a lot about how warm this down jacket is.
But I can't quite figure it out as the womens only has 3.3 oz of down.
The mens has more down and I suppose it is mostly referred to the mens.
I like the features of this jacket but I don't like the diamond womens design and mens small is still too large for me since I need a womens small.

Can someone tell me if the womens and mens are similar in warmth?
Does the womens pack less down because it is smaller in size, hence the down per square inch would be the same for both mens and womens?
I noticed that mens down jackets always have a higher down weight than womens.

On another note,
Can anyone recommend me a down jacket that:
- Under 450g
- Warm for 15 degrees (with warm baselayers)
- Under $200 (ideally under $150)
- has a hood (must!)
- has 2 hand warmer pockets
- has drawcord to adjust hem
- windproof
- water resistant

Preferred but not necessary:
- fleece-lined collar
- adjustible cuffs
- adjustible hood
- hood can be detached

Thanks a lot.

You can try an Eddie Bauer First Ascent Downlight Sweater. They have XS, short, regular, tall.

Unfortunately, the screaming $42 last year's model sell-off extravaganza is over, but they likely will have another sale after Christmas. The new model (at least in men's)is suppose to be a tad heavier but more downproof.

I got an XS for a friend, it fits her to a T and looks pretty nice in red. She's like 5'2-3, medium build. Lots of First Ascent stores though, so you can try it on.

Supposedly the EB is comparable to the Alpine Light in warmth. However, not sure these jackets (4oz of down) will keep you warm down to 15 degrees inactive though. I was pretty warm standing around fishing in mine with a baselayer down to -2*C. Might have been able to pull 15*F/-10*C off with my rain-jacket.

Maybe a Westcomb Kokanee. Might find one on sale. Montbell sold in Japan is smaller.

The more stitches the greater chance of cold spots. Baffled construction is better but more expensive.

Not sure about the less down because of less fabric. There's a slight discrepancy between final weight and men's sizes, but I attribute that to material, not down, weight.

most women sizes have less down than mens for most manuf, likely because women are smaller and smaller garments for the equivalent size means less fill

also quite a few women wont wear puffies because it "makes them look fat", so manuf have been going to a slimmer cut ... which might also mean less down

just keep in mind that women need quite a bit more insulation than men for the equivalent warmth .. so when a man says that the MB alpine light will keep him warm to 25F ... thats likely 30F+ for you

The Eddie Bauer seems to be good and is quite nice, but the sweater has no hood, and the hoodie is a pullover. :(
And other models are too heavy.

I like the design and features of the Kokanee very much, but not the price tag and its also a tad heavy, though it does seem to in a warmer class than MB Alpine light.

I really like the new Rab Infinity Jacket too, but its very expensive! :(

I've heard a lot of the term "baffled construction" being used.
What does it mean?

Also, I'm looking for a jacket that has something that can cover half my face up to over my nose.
My nose runs when it gets cold.
I have a Mountain Hardwear Sub Zero SL Hooded Jacket and there were these flaps from the hood that you could strap over your face. They were just high enough to cover my nose.
I'm very interested in the Rab Infinity because it looks like it might also be able to cover my nose.

http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Sub-Zero-SL™-Hooded-Jacket/OL1067,default,pd.html

http://www.rab.uk.com/clothing/down_insulation/womens_infinity_jacket---268/

Sorry, I keep on forgetting I can take advantage of Westcomb's sample sales because they're made in Vancouver and go by those prices. They had them on sale a lot cheaper. Full retail is pretty painful.

Quality lightweight down insulation is expensive. There's really no way around it it seems.

Aside from that EB debacle. No one else really sells "light" warm down for cheap. Feathered Friends and Western Mountaineering (IMHO.. the gold stardard for fit and finish) never go on sale.

Even Montbell rarely goes on sale.

You can always get a kit from "Thru Hiker" and make one.

Sewn through means they just stitch the two shell sides together and fill the space with down. Like you'd think.

Baffled construction means they sew each side of the shell to something like a piece of mesh to create a chamber (shell fabric separated by the mesh), and then fill it with down. Quality down sleeping bags are made this way.


Happy hunting.

aint a good deal at full retail ... they wont even tell me how much down there is in it despite being an owner of it ...

the rab infinity looks attractive ... LOTS of down for the weight

ill state right now that an EB downlight or even a MB alpine light wont be enough for you if yr sitting in camp at 15F ... i dont usually say this, but if yr azn, small and female ... it wont work ... i know azn females with those jackets and theyll work for them till freezing ... after that they get cold ... MB is a tad warmer ...

id look for something with over 6 oz of 800+ fill down

Edited by bearbreeder on 12/03/2010 02:50:50 MST.

Both the RAB Neutrino and Infinity are on sale for the same price. Eric,
which one would you get and why? I can see what is different between them but am curious. I have a Neutrino in my possession but haven't worn it in severe weather yet.

OP -- My RAB Neutrino in men's small weighs 20.25 oz so I'd think the women's small would come close to your weight requirement? I am a small female but I opted for the men's version because of fit and as a bonus, it has more down. I had two Montane down jackets, hooded and hon-hooded, and sent them back. Loved the fit and features but the wind blew thru the stitching around my kidneys and I got cold. I didn't like seeing daylight thru the stitching either which is a non-issue with the Neutrino.

The Eddie Bauer Peak XV doesn't meet your weight requirement by a long shot but it's a beast. :) And recently it was less expensive than the RAB jackets.

I keep reading that the MB Alpine Light and the EB Downlight Sweater are comparable. I have both in mens' medium (the EB as a vest) and my wife has the EB sweater in womens' large tall. My experience is that the Alpine Light has significantly more loft than either of the Downlights, based on feeling the thickness while hanging side-by-side.

We haven't had a chance to put them through their paces yet, but sitting around at Plateau Point waiting for the sunrise a couple days before Thanksgiving (probably an hour of inactivity in the low-mid 30s F) we were both very comfortable in medium baselayers (Ibex Indy for me and Capilene for her), acrylic "flannel" shirts as midlayers, the down jackets, and light shells (Event and Packlite). This was way too warm for even flat hiking. We're both in our mid-50s and around 150-160 lb if that helps calibrate.

EDIT: Just noticed the OP asked about the MB Parka; I have the jacket.

Edited by WillWeb on 12/05/2010 05:07:27 MST.

No one ever mentions the Patagonia Fitz Roy Down Hoody. My large weighs 660 grams/23.28 oz on my scale. It's filled with 800 fill down, has a great hood is very puffy and warm. I wore it in camp down to 17 degrees with a cap 1 and was pretty toasty. It's a little more money then you have listed that you want to spend. I lucked up and got mine for $150 last year.

There are a lot of great down jackets on the market. Some really light, some a little heavier.

I think it all comes down to, do you want to be able to hang out a little in camp warmly or do you want to have to get straight in your bag because your cold.

I've been eyeballing the OR Superplume lately. Heavier than what's being discussed but it's a true belay parka and the Endurance fabric is basically waterproof.

I dislike the Neutrino because of the wire in the brim of the hood and I also found myself underwhelmed by the quality of material. It would not be my first choice.

The Infinity has more down (I think?) than the comparable weight Montbell options. Looks pretty good although I've not tried it.

I think the idea of a pullover is awesome, actually. I find that in the winter I am all about layers and having everything with a full length zipper is pointless. The pullover plus my synthetic montbell jacket (or down vest) is still lighter than some of the options listed on this thread.

I think unless you are going to be sitting around belaying a super warm bomber down jacket is unnecessary - smaller, lighter weight pieces that you can layer will be fine and you can hop in your sleeping bag at camp if it's really frigid.

Pamela is the idea of a fleece neck gaiter unappealing for the cold nose issue? I have the same problem but like the fleece gaiter because it's less constrictive feeling than a jacket.

Yes, the infinity has almost double the down compared to Montbell, especially for the womens.
The infinity is really amazingly lightweight given the fill weight. It is said that this is attributed to the new Pertex fabric. Sure, there are lots of lighter jackets but they have much less down too, which means they are good for much warmer temperatures.
I read this review which really makes you want to get out and get one.
It looks really puffy from the photos.
http://terrybnd.blogspot.com/2010/11/rab-infinity-down-jacket.html

I have thought of the neck gaiter before. But that's an additional piece of garment to bring and use and I try to avoid that. I prefer integrated solutions but I would get one if I don't find something suitable. Thanks for the suggestion. Perhaps you might like to recommend a neck gaiter, should I need it?

Edited by WuffRuff on 12/03/2010 18:42:00 MST.

Hey Val, How high does the collar go to on your Rab Neutrino? It looks pretty high in the photos. Can if cover your mouth or nose?

Another question, does anyone know if those elastic parts on the cuffs and sometimes around the hood lose elasticity if you don't use them for some time? I have had pants and stuff lose the elasticity when I didn't use them for some time.

I hope this is not the case with these jackets. I usually try to get the velcro wrist cuffs ones but it seems that for down jackets, these are only found on the heavy jackets.

Even with the hood cinched it only gets about half way between my upper lip and nose. If I move around normally it covers my mouth most of the time and not much higher. YOu can tilt your head down and get the nose in there if needed but for normal movements it doesn't get coverage.

Thanks for your reply.
I was expecting something like that too.
I'll have to try it out in the shops.
Anyone seen any Rab Infinity jacket in any shops around London?
By the way, any idea of any pre or post Christmas sales here?
I'm new here so I've no clue.

pam eddie bauer does make the 800 fill sweater with a hood...

http://www.eddiebauer.com/catalog/product.jsp?ensembleId=37562&&categoryId=27538&categoryName=WOMENS-DOWN-JACKETS&pCategoryId=103&pCategoryName=OUTERWEAR-JACKETS--BLAZERS&gpCategoryId=3&gpCategoryName=WOMEN&ggpCategoryId=1&ggpCategoryName=EB&catPath=~~categoryId=27538~~categoryName=WOMENS-DOWN-JACKETS~~pCategoryId=103~~pCategoryName=OUTERWEAR-JACKETS--BLAZERS~~gpCategoryId=3~~gpCategoryName=WOMEN~~ggpCategoryId=1~~ggpCategoryName=EB&viewAll=null

Yeah, I saw that, but its a pullover, not a jacket.
I don't really like pullovers... I find them cumbersome to put on... especially if you need to squeeze them over thick layers. Then as you put them on, if its dry, the static messes your hair. Then they are even more cumbersome to take off as all the other under layers also want to come off together.
Nah... not for me.
But thanks for your input.