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Mitchell Murphy
(Texico) - F

Locale: North Georgia
Marmot Plasma on 12/02/2010 20:39:50 MST Print View

My apologies if this has already been posted elsewhere, but I haven't seen it yet, so here we go.

It looks like Marmot has released some new bags, their "Plasma" line. I just saw the bags on the REI website, and all I know about them is what's listed there, but has anyone heard anything about them or some first-hand experience?

There is a 15* and a 30* bag with 17.6oz and 10.4oz of 900fp down, respectively, for the regular length. This gives them an average weight listed as 30oz and 22oz. It also has "Flow Gate Construction" which looks like a fancy marketing term for continuous baffles in order to shift the down inside the bag. All this for the low low price of $420-$490.

15*F
http://www.rei.com/product/808964

30*F
http://www.rei.com/product/808962

P.S. Is it me or do they seem a "tad" overpriced? I mean, I know 900fp is da uber bestest, but with 800fp bags for $150 less...

Edited by Texico on 12/02/2010 20:43:22 MST.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F - M
marmots on 12/02/2010 21:02:48 MST Print View

plasma 30 vs. phantom 30

price ... $419 vs $290

weight ... 22 oz vs 23 oz

stuff sack vol ... 9.5L vs 6.3L

fill ... 10.4 oz/900 vs. 11 oz/800

en rating men ... 34F vs 29F

en rating women ... 42F vs 38F

so in short you're paying an extra $129 retail for a bag that packs bigger, is only an ounce lighter, is 5F colder

note that the marmot "900 fill" down doesn't perform any better than MH "800 fill"

the only advantage is being able to shift the down ... but there are other bags that can do that as well

Edited by bearbreeder on 12/02/2010 21:06:02 MST.

Michael Febbo
(febbom)
not impressed, at least on paper on 12/02/2010 22:53:03 MST Print View

If you watch the video for the 15 degree version on REIs site it indicates that the "flowgate" construction is actually internal baffles to prevent down migration within the long vertical baffled design. So, you actually can not shift the down, which appears to be something they are using as a selling point.

I just checked the specs on my old Marmot Helium (regular size, 900 fill down, half zipper, Pertex Quantum shell).
It has 19 ounces of down, is roomier all around, has continuous baffles, and is the same weight (1 pound 13.8 ounces as weighed by me).

So, this Plasma line is an overpriced step towards a more complicated than necessary bag that uses less of the same fill power down as the old Helium, but has a lighter shell (less durable). It looks as if the more complicated design (down "pillow" in the hood, new footbox) is supposed to justify the price, but I'd rather have a lighter, cheaper, less complicated product.

Also, the REI video makes me want to punch "Curly" in the face... but I digress

Edit: Eric, I would guess that the Plasma bags can stuff down much smaller than the included stuff sacks.

Edited by febbom on 12/02/2010 22:54:26 MST.

Mitchell Murphy
(Texico) - F

Locale: North Georgia
Re: not impressed, at least on paper on 12/03/2010 05:35:31 MST Print View

Thanks for the responses guys. That's exactly what I was thinking. I guess I just was wondering if anyone had physically seen the bag and maybe had different thoughts about it. I have a feeling I'm still going to get the Mountain Hardwear Phantom bag or a Jack's R Better ground-dweller quilt...

Aaron Reichow
(areichow)

Locale: Northern Minnesota
Re: Re: not impressed, at least on paper on 12/03/2010 10:49:26 MST Print View

If someone was going to spend that kind of money, why not go all the way and go Western Mountaineering? Summerlite has less room in the hips, but lighter and cheaper.

The built-in pillow on the Plasma bags is cute, but whoever put that into the design seems to be missing the point of a UL bag.

Michael and Mitchell: I think you're both wrong on what "Flow Gate Construction" is. It isn't a fancy marketing term for vertical baffles *or* continuous baffles, but something in between. It's a system that allows you to shift down around the bag and keep it there. That's the impression I get from the video and the text description, at least. In the video, Non-Curly holds a diagram that each baffle contains smaller chambers, which would make the bag effectively box baffled. I assume you can toggle these "Flow Gates" and lock down in certain areas. If this is the case, it would be a neat little innovation, though certainly not revolutionary.

Curly sez, "Wake up, Michael!"
Curly sez Wake Up!

Edited by areichow on 12/07/2010 08:37:01 MST.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Re: Re: not impressed, at least on paper on 12/03/2010 12:51:42 MST Print View

Ahh! It looks like the Emperor from Star Wars.

"Annekin, I got you this helmet from the Blagoevich estate sale"

Jack H.
(Found) - F

Locale: Sacramento, CA
Re: Marmot Plasma on 01/25/2011 23:25:53 MST Print View

Well, I saw one of these in person. While it's on top of the pile, it's not all that lofty.. I'd call the fifteen degree, a thirty degree.

adf

More photos from my trip are at outside365.com

David Hunter
(lime950) - F
Plasma 15 user... on 06/17/2011 01:24:08 MDT Print View

IMO... The bag in the pic above looks like it was just pulled from its storage bag or possibly a stuff sack. I have a Plasma 15, and trust me... it puffs up! Way up!! I have owned WM bags for over 10+ years (Ultralite, Summerlite and Highlite) and the Plasma is superior in nearly ever way. This is most evident in the hood, draft tube and neck collar. The Marmot design leaves the WM bags I have owned in the dust in those areas, offering far greater comfort, warmth and ease of use when cinching down the hood and draft collar. The Plasma hood coddles your head and nothing touches you in the wrong way. In contrast, the WM hoods are very shallow, do not coddle your head nicely, the velcro often lays against your face and the cord in the draft collar in the Ultralite lays in such a way so that when it is cinched, it literally presses down against your neck and throat - very uncomfortable! The Pertex fabric in the Plasma also feels better and is far more water repellent than the Extremelite fabric from WM. I have also found the Plasma 15 warmer than the Ultralite, so I'd also say the 15 degree rating is pretty much spot on.

Now, I love that the WM bags are still made in the USA, but after trying the Plasma 15, I knew I had found a superior bag. Yes - it weighs about 2.5 ounces more than the Ultralite, but I'd gladly trade those few grams for a far superior sleep. Also - I don't think Marmot's goal was to make the lightest sleeping bag for temp rating on the market. If that was their goal, they failed. I think, rather, that they wanted to create an absolutely full-featured, top-of-the-line sleeping bag with most, if not all the bells and whistles, and do so at a weight "nearly" the lightest in each class. In that regard, I think they hit a home run! Again... IMO... :)

Dean Daskalou
(ddaskalou) - F
Re: Marmot Plasma on 07/08/2011 19:31:01 MDT Print View

Hi,

Just bought a new marmot plasma, wondering when in the field what would be the best compression sack for it. Trying to save a little extra space. Also will I do the bag any harm by compressing it further than the sack provided.
Expert help needed
Regards Dean

Robert Cowman
(rcowman) - F - M

Locale: Canadian Rockies
Re: Re: Marmot Plasma on 07/08/2011 19:39:23 MDT Print View

compression sacks are overly heavy. just stuff it in an oversized stuff sack and then cram everything else into the bag. that way it will fill all the empty spaces that shaped stuff sacks cant.

Dave Heiss
(DaveHeiss) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Plasma stuffsack on 07/11/2011 11:00:35 MDT Print View

Or just pick up a Riksak from Gossamer Gear, which you can use it as a stuffsack for the Plasma and as a daypack for when you make camp and want to explore the area.

Daniel Yaris
(danielY) - F

Locale: PNW
I want to check one out on 07/11/2011 11:04:21 MDT Print View

I have heard about it and a few friends have talked about it. It looks good with it's specs but not sure why they put a pillow pocket?

Alina G
(Alina) - MLife

Locale: Toronto, Ontario
Re: Plasma 15 user... on 09/09/2011 22:43:43 MDT Print View

@David or anyone who has the Plasma 15
How small is the Plasma 15 once in its stuff bag? I read a review that the provided stuff sack is too small for this bag? Is it true?
What is the shoulder girth?
Thank you.

David Hunter
(lime950) - F
Plasma 15 answers... on 09/12/2011 22:33:00 MDT Print View

@Alina...

Hi. The Plasma stuff sack is not too small for the bag. If fits fine. You just have to stuff away. As far as stuff sack size and shoulder girth, I'm pretty sure that info can be found at the marmot site? Bag packs small for a 15 degree bag and the I do not in any way feel cramped in the bag. In fact, it is VERY roomy compared to the WM Ultralite, especially in the shoulders and hips. At first that threw me off, causing me to think I'd be chilly with the extra room, but the 900 Power down has crazy loft and it is a WARM bag. The zipper is a bit sticky, but once you get the hang of it, it is not problem. I really like this bag, but it is so warm, I there are times when I think I should have purchased the Plasma 30 instead. Hmmm... maybe a Christmas gift to myself? LOL...

Alina G
(Alina) - MLife

Locale: Toronto, Ontario
Marmot Plasma on 09/12/2011 23:38:39 MDT Print View

Hi David,
Thank you very much for your response.
It is interesting that you say that Plasma feels much roomier than Ultralight. Plasma is only 1 inch wider .

Regarding it being too warm: where do you mostly backpack? I was thinking that if it gets too hot I could get an overbag and use it just by itself. In colder temp. the overbag will come in handy as well so I do not have to buy a winter bag. What do you think of this idea?

Marmot actually does not list the girth or the size of the stuff sack which was very surprising. Since my post here I have found somewhere else that the girth is 60” and the stuff sack 9” by 15” hmm....
Ultralight is only 7” by 13”. When I watched a video review from backpacker magazine the stuffed bag seemed to be quite small. How do they compare? Is there really such big difference?

One more question: how is Plasma’s water repellence/performance and how does it compare to Ultralight?
Thank you.

David Hunter
(lime950) - F
More Plasma blubbering... LOL on 09/14/2011 08:36:50 MDT Print View

Hi. The shape of the Plasma is less restricting overall to this user compared to the WM UL. It is a more refined shaped and it fits me wonderfully. As far as the stuff sack goes, it might be a bit larger than the UL, but I have no issues carrying it horizontally at the bottom of my 2100 cubic inch TNF Alteo 35 pack.

Let me try to explain it this way. The WF Ultralite bag is a great piece of gear. It is exceptionally well made, with wonderful materials and it is warm, light, compressible and has proved to this user a durable bag when properly cared for. It is good stuff.

The Marmot Plasma does all that, and then takes it up a notch or two. It is warmer, has a significantly better fitting hood and draft collar, has more features (the built-in pillow really makes a difference and you get hang loops, where as in the WM UL, you do not) a better DWR, more sophisticated foot box, a more articulated and comfortable shape (at least to this user - 5'9", 170 lbs, athletic build), the Pertex feels nicer to the skin than the Xtremelite fabric of the UL, and you get higher lofting down with the Plasma as well.

So... Warmer, more features and better sophistication in fit and over-all design while still staying under 2 lbs. That is what you're paying for compared to the WM UL. A quick Google search shows that the Marmot Plasma 15 can be found at Moosejaw right now for $375.20. Really, at that price, it is an absolute must buy IMO.

http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/shop/product_Marmot-Plasma-15-Degree-Sleeping-Bag_10116843_10208_10000001_-1_?cm_mmc=CSE-_-GoogleBase-_-na-_-Marmot-Plasma-15-Degree-Sleeping-Bag&ad_id=GoogleBase

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Marmot Plasma on 09/14/2011 09:12:50 MDT Print View

I always chuckle to myself with warmth ratings. Here you have a bag that is EN tested to 28.9F for comfort but yet is marketed as a 15F bag, which EN testing confirms would be most uncomfortable at that temp.

But the facts are in the specs - fill weight of under 20oz and loft of under 5". For a true 15F bag, you would need closer to 28oz of down and a loft of closer to 7".

But at least you are carrying a sub 2lb bag.......

Stephan Doyle
(StephanCal)
Re: Re: Marmot Plasma on 09/14/2011 10:34:53 MDT Print View

David, I think an acknowledgement of different sleep metabolisms is in order. Looking at the EN ratings and down fill, I would say it's a true 15-20º bag FOR ME. 7" of down at 15º would have me sweating all night.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F - M
plaaaasssmaaa on 09/14/2011 10:42:55 MDT Print View

the plasma 15 is a 29F for women, 18F for men rating

note that while it is slightly lighter than the helium ... the helium in theory is a slightly "warmer" bag according to the en specs

so its quite a valid question if there any real advantage

not that i use the plasma, or the helium currently ;)

David Hunter
(lime950) - F
More Plasma chat... on 09/14/2011 13:22:16 MDT Print View

I agree with Stephan above. Sleeping bags and warmth are really personal, not unlike a pair of shoes. Sure, you can find your basic size, but that does not mean that all shoes in that size fit and/or are comfortable. Sleeping bags and warmth/comfort are no different, and for me, I have found the Plasma 15 warmer in use than my WM Ultralite bag, which is no slouch in the "keep you warm" department. And again, I have found the Plasma far superior in over-all comfort.

Compared to the Helium, I cannot say if the extra money is worth it. That would be up to the purchaser to decide. Now would I have paid full price for my Plasma 15? In truth, no. But once again, at $380, it was a must-have purchase for me and I feel like I got a good value at that price.

Also... I just took multiple measurements of the loft and found it to be between 5.5" and 6".

Edited by lime950 on 09/14/2011 13:33:58 MDT.