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Neoair and Z lite for winter Cmaping
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Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Cheers on 12/18/2010 11:28:23 MST Print View

Cheers

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: Covering their butt on 12/18/2010 11:56:53 MST Print View

>>I suppose the only way I'll know for sure is to just try it myself both ways.<<

Use what works and lose what doesn't! ;-)

>>when a body lays on something and compresses it you no longer have the same R-value.<<

The more it compresses the more conductive it becomes!

>>I use a 1" self-inflating with a Ridge Rest and can use that combo on snow and sleep warm.<<

I'll take the wisdom of experience and lessons learned afield anytime! ;-)

There is another thread that is being discussed simultaneously called "Why am I still cold with this winter quilt?", that is also worth a read.

@ Kevin,

In what order do you use your pads and what is the R value of each. Have you tried them in differing orders? If so, have you noticed any difference?

I am very interested in this thread and the other because I will be on the AT in SW Virginia this September and I want to get my sleep system adequately set up before I bed down and become a FOPS. FAT OLD PEOPLE 'SICLE! ;-) ;-)

Party On,

Newton

kevperro .
(kevperro) - F

Locale: Washington State
I've done both on 12/18/2010 12:38:19 MST Print View

I've done it both ways and to be honest it was warm enough either way. I didn't have any kind of controlled test and didn't feel the need to experiment further although I carved up a RidgeRest two years ago and now slip what is left of it directly inside my sleeping bag. The remainder is about 5oz. and my old 1" thick self-inflater is about 16-17oz. R-Values which they say are "relative" are on the Cascade Designs site. I think the RidgeRest is around 2.2 and the newest version of the Prolite is listed as 2.2-2.8. I have no idea how my old version that was over ten years old compared to the newest flavor. I just sold it and bought the girlie version that is 66" long and they list a higher R value for it. I'm suspicious of the claims but I figure most 1" self-inflating pads will be fairly comparable.

But.... Kevin the physics nerd thinks that the insulation provided by the foam RidgeRest is very predictable. As I roll around my body heats up the insulation quickly. The deflection of the air mattress is also minimized because the foam layer distributes my weight at the pressure points over a wider area of the air pad. It stays thicker when my bony hip points into the pad. Of course the foam deflects too but not to the same degree. As I said.... it works either way. At some point you just go with what works and stop worrying about it.

Edited by kevperro on 12/18/2010 12:45:36 MST.

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: I've done both on 12/18/2010 13:04:26 MST Print View

Kevin,

Ahh, the wisdom of experience. ;-)

Party On,

Newton

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
over n under on 12/18/2010 13:38:02 MST Print View

note that CC could also be looking it from a comfort and durability perspective ... for which the neo on top makes sense

i dont think it matters much either way

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
sandwich on 12/18/2010 13:51:53 MST Print View

another alternative- someone posted (in another thread) using a 1/8" thinlight on the bottom (2 oz) and then a 3/8" thinlight on top (5 oz) w/ the neo in the middle- basically a neo sandwich :)

r value of roughly 4.5

I've got a couple of 1/8" thinlights and already have a neo- so I think I might find a couple of 3/8 thinlights and give it a go

Ryan C
(radio_guy) - MLife

Locale: Alaska
Re: I've done both on 12/18/2010 21:26:33 MST Print View

I recently combined regular Ridgerest and Neoair with a 15*F Marmot Helium and was comfortable down to 6*F (with wool baselayers, MB Alpine light parka, Goosefeet booties, insulated pants, Patagonia R1 pullover and balaclava).

Using the Ridgerest on top of the Neoair seemed warmer for me. It seemed that at temperatures below 15*F heat escapes out the sides of the Neoair and cools the pad too much. Having the Ridgerest with it's R of 2.6 on top seemed to help. I probably would have gotten a Ridgerest Solar if the local gear shop had them.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Pad on top on 12/19/2010 10:56:26 MST Print View

Hi Ryam

Was it as comfortbale with the Ridge rest on top.

Cheers,

Stephen

Brian Lewis
(brianle) - F

Locale: Pacific NW
Pad on top +1 on 12/19/2010 13:33:16 MST Print View

I can't claim to have done extensive "both ways" testing, but my feeling too is that the pad on top is warmer, for just the reasons previously cited.

I used a setup similar to Ryan's on the AT early this year, when temps got down at least some days into the teens. I had the (size regular) neo-sandwhich, for me a 1/8" thinlight below and a 1/4" thinlight above, and from *brief* testing I felt warmer with the thicker ccf pad above (even though it is arguably more comfortable with the neo on top). I was prepared to stack both pads on top if it ever got cold enough to warrant that, but I don't think there was a night when I actually did so.

Clothing, bag etc: 20F WM bag, Montbell alpinelight parka, feathered friends down booties, cap 1 longjohns.

Ryan C
(radio_guy) - MLife

Locale: Alaska
Re: Pad on top on 12/19/2010 22:58:18 MST Print View

Hi Stephen,

I am half side sleeper and half back sleeper. In warmer weather I would be more comfortable with the Neoair on top. In colder weather like what I experimented with, having the Ridgerest on top is warmer and therefore more comfortable.

I would say that if the Neoair is deflated slightly that the Ridgerest can flex some with the air pad below and be more comfortable.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Thanks on 12/20/2010 01:54:11 MST Print View

Hi folks,

Cheers all the advice. :-)