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RE: Member - John Devitt
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Robert Cowman
(rcowman) - F

Locale: Canadian Rockies
... on 11/17/2010 20:19:57 MST Print View

I've read this whole thing.

Don't care.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
lol on 11/17/2010 20:22:27 MST Print View

javan ...

i actually wouldnt pay for any BPL gear =P

in my view then BPL screwed up and the person who bought everything took a huge risk and may or may not reap the rewards

BPL should have made an online ordering system that prevented the issue in the first place

people do it all the time in the real world ... they buy whats in demand and then sell it ... its called enterprise ;)

yeah ... i think ive had my say on the subject too ... nap time !!!

Chris Peichel

Locale: Eureka
Golite on 11/17/2010 20:25:40 MST Print View

+1 Javan

Yes it is called enterprise...but it does come with rules, regulations and ethics

Daniel Osella
(Sasquatch420) - MLife
Thanks for the good deal! on 11/17/2010 20:26:09 MST Print View

I got my 2 tents the other day and am looking forward to using them. Thanks again for offering the great products at great prices.

Dave -
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
RE: Member - John Devitt on 11/17/2010 20:26:40 MST Print View

The problem with this is that if John is buying in bulk large quantities for profit, then he is preventing others who lined up for 4 hours at the sale to have an opportunity to buy some of the gear. What makes John so special? Not only has he lied to Golite, but he has lied to this community.

I think Golite should be applauded for trying to HELP someone in apparent NEED in the first place. Of course, should someone really need to outfit a local scout group...good luck with Golite. Once bitten, twice shy.

Dave -
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
RE: Member - John Devitt on 11/17/2010 20:28:25 MST Print View

"I got my 2 tents the other day and am looking forward to using them. Thanks again for offering the great products at great prices."

Aren't you a little old to be a Scout?

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: we differ on 11/17/2010 20:30:19 MST Print View

Let's please stop assuming Golite, the company, is responsible for the initial post. It was one employees post, and IMO an ill regarded post at that (regardless of how I might feel about the underlying charges). From what I can tell so far, this is between Mike and John, not Golite and John. To tar the company is as unfair as tarring John without knowing all the facts. As always, FWIW.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
i dont want to post again on 11/17/2010 20:36:35 MST Print View

but he did refer to "our sale" .. and made no effort to indicate his views were not those of the company ...he clearly stats his affiliation and position and makes no attemp to seperate it

"I am one of GoLite's North American Asst. Sales Managers."

if this is not golite's position ... then then employee should offer a clarification or the company should state their position ...

sound like he is representing golite ...

John Devitt
(cabana) - MLife

Locale: Colorado
Re: RE: Member - John Devitt on 11/17/2010 20:39:23 MST Print View


How about reading my post, just up a bit from your. I did donate a good amount of gear to the scouts. You really are making comments without knowing both sides, and the most of any one item I have bought was 6 SL-1 nests. everything else was 2 or 3 like items.


John Devitt
(cabana) - MLife

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: we differ on 11/17/2010 20:45:18 MST Print View

hi Javan,

I do see your point, and I agree with you. However, the Bulk buying is not at the level used in your illustration. I made 3 seperate trips to the Boulder sale. I have seen people buying boxes of an item at the Boulder sale in 2007. I am getting a kick out of this big "bulk buyer" image being painted of me. This is just not the case. I buy something I want for myself, and 1 or 2 more.

Edited by cabana on 11/17/2010 22:19:21 MST.

Randy Nelson
(rlnunix) - F - M

Locale: Rockies
Golite on 11/17/2010 20:50:47 MST Print View

I think it's amazing that somebody posts something negative about someone and a lot of people automatically assume, no, absolutely know, it's true. And immediately start calling that person, a liar, greedy, a criminal, etc. Were any of you who posted such things there? How are you all so sure of the facts while sitting in front of your computer.

Sounds like he did donate gear to the Scouts. And if he tried to defer his costs, so what? What have you donated? Did they give him an extra discount because of the Scouts? Doesn't sound like it.

So once the doors opened, how did he prevent anyone from buying anything? Did they let only let one person in the store at a time? Ever been to an REI garage sale? What's the difference?

Edited by rlnunix on 11/17/2010 21:02:03 MST.

Randy Nelson
(rlnunix) - F - M

Locale: Rockies
Golite on 11/17/2010 20:55:17 MST Print View

"I think Golite should be applauded for trying to HELP someone in apparent NEED in the first place."

I agree if that is true. What did Golite do to help them? What was the additional discount for the Scouts?

Edited by rlnunix on 11/17/2010 20:55:48 MST.

John Devitt
(cabana) - MLife

Locale: Colorado
Re: Golite on 11/17/2010 21:12:44 MST Print View

Hi Randy,

I got 2 short Ultra 20 quilts, that had not sold in 4 days, with a $30.00 discount on each one. I got the discount after I mentioned that I had spent a lot at that sale. A "scout discount" was never mentioned. I asked the clerk straight up if I could get a better deal than the bar code stated. we agreed on a price and I bought them.

We were just having a casual conversation and I did mention that I have bought gear and donated to scouts. It was also stated that most of my purchases were from family & friends, as it was. Of course I posted some stuff I bought last night for sale. It helps to pay off the trip up there, lowers my cost on stuff, and folks get a get deal.

Someone stated "change user name & keep on selling" Yeah...that is not my style. Mike was presented with a soulution to the "Goite resale violation" in my initial post on this topic. I will return the unsold items new & sample.


Edited by cabana on 11/17/2010 21:33:49 MST.

Dug Shelby
(Pittsburgh) - F

Locale: Bay Area
My 2 centavos on 11/17/2010 22:18:05 MST Print View


Technically, GoLite COULD take legal steps in the matter. Writing a short message explaining what is happening on a forum where the items are being sold is pretty much taking it easy. They have every right to inform.

I would have contacted the seller first, though, and ask to cease and desist. He was apparently acting more towards his own good than the good of GoLite, etc. If he wanted to make a donation to a scout troop, make one. A donation doesn't mean, "Get my money back another way." If you meant well, inform the scout leader where and when, and let the scout troop leader do the work. Benevolent act accomplished by informing scout troop leader of killer deals.

Otherwise, scout troop gets the donation, then re-seller can continue hitting up sales, and yes, that is a breach of not just the spirit of everything, but capitalism, and it's just plain illegal.

And if it's being sold on multiple seems like there's more being kept to be re-sold than what was stated. I'll be sure to watch who I buy from.

Edited by Pittsburgh on 11/17/2010 22:19:51 MST.

Anne Walker
(JonnyWalker) - F
Hikers on 11/17/2010 23:11:01 MST Print View

*rant on*
If hikers are supposed to be good hearted people, how come flame wars like this come up so often on forums? Would any of you be acting like this if you were out in the woods? Really guys what could make you so concerned with someone elses actions that you would let it ruin your day?
*rant off*

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Much ado about nothing on 11/17/2010 23:38:51 MST Print View

My thoughts on this matter:

GoLite is totally out of line to make such a statement. If they don't want people re-selling times, they shouldn't be having the sales in the first place. If I were the CEO of GoLite, I would have the OP in my office for a career decision session. To air such things publicly and threaten a customer is BAD business.

The volume of goods we are talking about in relation to GoLite total sales is *tiny*. We're talking about a few hundred dollars in a multi-million dollar business.

What you cannot do is to claim you are a dealer or use the company's logo, trademarks, artwork or other intellectual property. Warranties seem very gray on things like this, unless the manufacturer requires proof of purchase in the form of a receipt from the dealer. That gets harder with lifetime warrantied items. I wouldn't expect much when buying used gear or from sources like this. It's part of the deal and that is why some people pay retail. There is risk involved.

IMHO, ff ANYONE sells an item, it is the buyer's option to do anything with it he likes, unless there is a written contractual agreement restricting the use or resale, and even that is open to interpretation and litigation. Software licensing is a good example.

My concern as a subscriber and participant on this site is that John conducts himself honestly: that he ships the items in a timely manner, that the items are as represented, and that he makes a good faith effort to correct any problems that do arise. I haven't heard anything to doubt his practices.

Having an open forum where people can sell items relies on the honesty of the participants. I think the BPL subscribers have been fortunate in that regard and I hope it continues. It is possible that some items sold here are stolen goods-- I doubt that very much, but it is possible. The same problem arises on eBay and Craig's List. I have read of scams on the knife collectors forums that pale anything that has gone on here.

The Gear Swap forum does provide a great service to many people and I'm sure it allows many to purchase gear that they could not afford otherwise. It is recycling in it's best form.

As to selling on multiple forums, I see that as an issue between John and the BPL moderators. As long as everyone gets the items they paid for, I see nothing untoward or dishonest about it at all.

I have been buying and selling personally on eBay for eleven years. I have worked for electronics suppliers with a web store, as a professional eBay lister, as a flea market vendor, and I am currently employed selling consigned marine equipment. I've seen all kinds of bad business: shoddy merchandise, dishonest sellers AND buyers, shipping SNAFU's, credit card fraud-- you name it. Let me tell you all, from decades of business experience in the "unter-economy": this is much ado about nothing.

Edited by dwambaugh on 11/17/2010 23:47:43 MST.

Mark Ryan

Locale: Somewhere. Probably lost.
WOW on 11/18/2010 07:16:05 MST Print View

Is this the place for this?

Brian Macari

Locale: Mid-Atlantic
Everyone is right on 11/18/2010 08:30:34 MST Print View

No laws were broken. We live in a free market economy, and John is just trying to make a few extra bucks. Add it all up and i am not even sure he would tell you it was worth it. Meanwhile, Golite certainly has the right to control its distribution channels for very good already stated reasons. Someone suggested putting a sign up with conditions at the Golite sale - great idea. i am a big fan of Golite gear and have bought from John with no issues, and think he definitely provides a value added service to us on the forum. He goes through the hassle of shopping and we give him a few bucks for the effort. What I don't like is the scent of duplicity, but also the slandering of John. This needn't be publicly discussed and should be left between John and Golite. The rest is just emotion and reaction and has no place here.

NW Hiker
(king2005ify) - M
This applys to all "garage sales" on 11/18/2010 09:45:05 MST Print View

My opinion:

I think that all garage sales should have a limit on items, period. (i, 2 or 3 items max). Picture how nice that would be knowing that you might actually have a chance to get something at a good price?

I am sick of waiting in line for hours, only to have a bunch of a-holes running in and grabbing everything they see, all while being very rude. I simply won't do the sales anymore because the experience is horrible, especially the times I have gone with my little kids.

Buying a few items and selling for a few dollars more if you don't want them is done everyday...both parties are happy, all 3 parties are happy, so who cares?

Ryan Jordan
(ryan) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Greater Yellowstone
The Merits of Taking a High Route on 11/18/2010 09:45:36 MST Print View

There are merits to taking the high route:

1. You get out of the vegetation so you can see the big picture.
2. The air is cleaner which delivers more oxygen to your brain so you can think more clearly.

There are three low routes here.

1. The low route of the forum gear swap buyer who can see a product through the bushes that looks awfully good but the buyer can't really figure out the ethics that brought this product to market.

2. The low route of the forum gear swap seller who can see buyers through the bushes on one side, and his supplier through the bushes on the other and perhaps the IRS in the bushes above. Perhaps the buyer is hoping that none of these folks meet at the same trail junction, or perhaps, that they only see glimpses of what they absolutely need to see.

3. The low route of the supplier that wants to control their distribution.

There is a difference between judgment and motivation.

Examples of bad judgment: a buyer buying something from an unethical seller that the buyer knows has broken a law or policy (has this happened? I don't know), an individual resells something that he knows he shouldn't have resold because of a violation of law or policy or operation without a business license or not disclosing, etc. (did this happen? I don't know), or a supplier trying to control distribution unreasonably that prevent legal commerce from taking place (did this happen? I don't know).

Motivations are different, and extremely difficult to levy judgment upon.

1. The motivation John has to make a profit for his investment of time and money is a good one. But it comes with responsibility.

2. The motivation for all of you to buy gear cheaply is a good one. But it comes with responsibility.

3. The motivation for GoLite to protect its brand is a good one. But it comes with responsibility.

I encourage the next step to be this:

John and GoLite should meet in person, admit each of their responsibilities in this matter, whatever they are (because we sure as heck can't sort them out here), and work towards figuring out a solution.

Then, before either party decides to take advantage of the BPL Forums again for their own gain, they should report back with what they come up with. Maybe it's a divorce, maybe it's a marriage, maybe it's an opportunity simply to say "I'm sorry for what I did" (rather than accusing each other for what they did!).

Both John and GoLite are close members of our community. Before levying great judgment on either of them, give them a chance to work it out in an intentional and meaningful way, and let's see what they come up with.

Relationship is simpler than in needs to be. Have a face to face meeting. Quit trying to do this on the Internet.

Thread closed. (But preserved for posterity and entertainment!)