How to tell which way the tent floor is sloped on a level site?

I read somewhere a few years ago in a thread that someone had a way of figuring this out, but they just alluded to it. I should have asked how then, but I guess my pride got in the way (at my age I thought I should have known this and didn’t want to look stupid for asking).

Where I hike I usually find a fairly level campsite, so level that it is hard to tell which way is up.

Yes, it does matter to me, the slightest grade, if I'm facing the wrong way can mean frustration until I figure it out. The blood movement to my head is unexcitable. I will switch the ends of my sleeping bags sometimes 3 or 4 time until I get it right. If camping with my wife she really gets frustrated because she could care less! Someone has to have an easy way to figure this out without laying both ways until you either guess or figure it out.

And no, I am not going to bring a marble with me to check. I also don’t want to pour water to see which way it drains (I like to keep a dry site)

Let see what solutions you can come up with.

You could always lay down on the foot print and test it out first. Otherwise, you could try fill up a water bottle and lay that on the ground. If it rolls its too steep, if it doesn't roll the water level might be higher at one end (the low side). Not sure if the water level application would actually work, but you could give it a try.

Try a larger pillow? It will get your head up.

Cheers

@Eric, the water bottle (or platy) is a good idea, but most sites need something a little longer to be truly accurate.

@Roger- A bigger pillow- yeah that might work but then that opens a whole new can of worms; how big, how heavy, where do I get it, will it fit the kit I have now.
I tried looking for some foam to make the pillow you did with the holes; but I couldn't find any decent foam around here for a reasonable cost (shipped in wouldn't be much better then buying a down one from WM) and I would have to buy almost a mattress full as a minimum.
It is still as good easy solution if I can find a UL larger pillow

I always goof this up. I'm >.< close to bringing one of those laser levels sold at home improvement stores. Lately I've been building myself a small pit for my body to rest in so I don't slide down hill. They would probably be a terrible idea in the rain, but I haven't slept in the rain at all this year...even when I tried.

I wonder if a spectra line is slick enough that you could tie it between two stakes and put a bead in the middle to see which way it slides...

If you use a freestanding shelter, you could hang a string from the apex and paint a mark on the floor where the string should touch when level. Of course many sites don't have a uniform slope and head-area may end up below the middle of the floor in any case.

A thicker mattress will compensate for your issue. I use a BA Clearview and a large pillow with great success.

"If you use a freestanding shelter, you could hang a string from the apex and paint a mark on the floor where the string should touch when level."

Even easier, set a half full water bottle on the floor and interpret as you would a level.

clinometer on a compass ... get one with one if your going anywhere with snow hazards

everyone should have a compass anyways right ;)

Steve, not a bad idea with the plumb bob. I just don't know what I could use that is heavy enough to be accurate and multi-use (I don't want to carry a bob from work- they weigh about a pound or more).
I don't think the thicker mattress will help compensate. I might be wrong in my thinking, but if it is placed backwards it might exacerbate the problem because your upper body is heavier than your legs thus sinking deeper into the mattress at that end, making the problem worse.

Eric, a "clinometer on a compass" might be a little small given that I've never seen a site that is on a perfectly flat plane that a small "4 inch" base would give accuracy.

Tom, same as above the half full water bottle might give the wrong reading given where it is placed.


Good ideas everyone, these are what I'm looking for.

tad ... if you use tent poles .... or some other stiff flat surface ... lay those down and then put the clinometre on top for a level plane

i do the same in snow with my poles ...

of course if all yr looking for is a 1-2 deg slope ... good luck with any system ;)

Eric, I guess my "head" is looking for a tight tolerance (under 2 degrees)

"Tom, same as above the half full water bottle might give the wrong reading given where it is placed."

I should have added: move it around and take readings at various locations; a front to back and side to side pattern should do the trick.

Tom, we you are right, great idea.

At home fill a water bottle with water until there is a bubble of air left. Lay the bottle on its side so that it is level. Mark the center point on the side of the bottle with a marker. When out in the field, lay the bottle on its side. Where the air bubble shifts away from the center mark is the degree to which the site slopes. And, as Tom suggested, since a site may have different slopes, just take the measurement at different points in the site.

Another thing you can do to see where a site dishes or mounds is peg a long length of cord to one end of the site, draw it across the site, and then look beneath it and take note of the amount of space under the cord.

Edited by butuki on 11/17/2010 21:47:05 MST.

Ah, I'm sorry, I'm a JackA$$.

Edited by T.L. on 11/17/2010 22:16:43 MST.

Miguel, I like the mark on the bottle. I think 2 mark on either side of the bubble could be even better, that way if there is less water you can use both marks like a level as a reference point

Travis- I have been helping my high schooler with his geometry for the last hour, very funny.

My phone has a level app, works OK, but seems like it isn't that difficult to figure out if it slopes and which way it does.

Eugene, though they don't weigh much I would prefer not to have to carry anything extra nor do a engineering survey of the tent site just to go to sleep. Just kidding.

BTW, I have a few of those laying around the shop, they are not very accurate, in fact I have never found one worth using for the kind of work I do.

I wouldn't carry one either, at least not if I can take advantage of a lighter method. Like the plumb level inside a tent wouldn't work for me because I don't use a free standing tent. The water bottle wouldn't work either because I use a suitable water bottle. Laying down on the ground sheet should work, but I usually forget this because I'm almost always in a rush to get my tarp put over my ground sheet so it doesn't blow away. I'm not in a big rush. Using rocks or a pit is enough to keep me from sliding, and that's my main goal. The pit could be bad if it rains, but I live in southern California....a dry location already, and we're expecting an unusually dry winter.

When I read the question I can't help but ask, is this a joke?

"which way the tent floor is sloped on a level site"

Doesn't level imply no slope?

Edited by simplespirit on 11/18/2010 10:43:12 MST.

Maybe you can flip the problem a bit. Instead of looking for a campsite level to within 1-2 degrees and fighting it when you don't, you can come up with a pad system that allows you to adjust as needed.

Or try a hammock. :-)

Spit, then see which way the dribble slides across the nylon.

Most I hike with either eyeball it or lay down on top of their ground sheet to see which direction feels best.

"I don't think the thicker mattress will help compensate. I might be wrong in my thinking, but if it is placed backwards it might exacerbate the problem because your upper body is heavier than your legs thus sinking deeper into the mattress at that end, making the problem worse."

You have a point, in that your legs may be above your head without the use of a pillow. Looking at it from another angle, a thicker mattress will allow you torso to sink deeper and thus, should be less likely that blood should inundate your head. On a slight slope it helps me quite a bit.

Maybe try to sleep on a very slight slope which is more easily discernible? That would be better drainage too if it rains. You'll have to test and find the limits of when your pad and bag slides though.

Otherwise, I think the only way you'll be able to reliably figure it out (without specialized surveyor tools) before pitching your shelter is to just lie down on the groundsheet for a few minutes.

Using a pillow and maybe some gear under your sleeping pad will help too.

I figure that if I can't tell by eyeballing, the slope isn't significant enough to make any difference. However, you can always lie down to make sure.

I'd rather have to fight a slope than be in a spot that will become a lake in a hard rain! (Been there, done that, never again!)

For a lightweight pillow, check http://kookabay.com/

Edited by hikinggranny on 11/18/2010 12:20:48 MST.

For everyone- my body (head) has a very low tolerance for sleeping with my head on the down hill side.

@Chris W, I would have thought that also but level is always relative (you ought to see some of the houses I've had to fix that were built "level" originally.

@Chris B, most of the cascade mtn trails have very established campsites so for LNT you take what is already there.

@Eugene, I don't think that technique would be expectable to my wife or ok for my sleeping bag

@John, the whole reason for going out on a limb with my ego on this tread is to avoid what you are suggesting (thats what I've done for years)

@SteveO, Thicker mattress is in the works. I have a Neo and a BAIAC but they are too cold for where I hike most of the time (I was snowed on in August)

@Andy, a bigger pillow might just make a pain in my neck, solving one problem by creating another.

@ Mary, I agree with the water issue- if its raining I just move on and look for a sloped site. Its when it is nice out that I have to do all the gyrations to get comfortable.
I am talking with Bender about both a custom mattress and pillow

Edited by bestbuilder on 11/18/2010 13:03:03 MST.

In my 43 years of backpacking experience, I have pondered this question. Much study went into a system which I have successfully used for decades. My system works in the lowest desert. It works in the highest mountains. It never fails whether it rains or shines. I give this to the BPL community free gratis. To wit:

If in doubt regarding the slope of a potential tent site: 1. Place your walking stick along your chosen axis and view it from different angles. Determine the slope and adjust your axis accordingly. 2. Erect tent and ready your sleeping system.

There, that's all there is to it. When you drag your exhausted body into you sleeping bag and lay your head down, you will find that the lowest end of your tent is between your ears, where your pulse pounds in your temples. And your head feels heavy as your blood seeks the lowest level.

Sleep tight! Don't let the bed-bugs bite.

For my telescope, and landscaping of paving stones, I purchased a small round "button-bubble level" at the hardware store.

Weights "nothing" and I can place it on my Thermarest to see a 360-degree level. When I place it at each four corners of the pad, I can see if I really am sloped correctly for a "heads-up" set up.

I think Denis has it about right, lol!

I understand that Bender of KookaBay has made a bigger inflatable pillow for JollyGreenGiant, who of course requires a higher pillow than many of us. Tad, this might be something you'd want! You can inflate it lower most of the time, but inflate it higher if your head turns out to be downhill!

Cocoon also has some light, very packable, firm (if you want) inflatable pillows. Around 3 ounces. Several inches thick, probably takes up ~200ml of volume packed...

If your torso sinking into a thick pad is enough to give you a headache, you should have the same problem on your mattress at home. So, its psychosomatic. Or perhaps the solution is a pill to fix your blood pressure issue, or would that be too much to carry?

Steve, no mattress problem at home, slim build, definately not psychosomatic (many others have this problem), "no pills gonna cure on head"
Good try though

Get a clear plastic tube as long as you can hold the two ends apart, Almost fill the tube with water . lay that down on the ground holding the ends up. Check the water level at both ends...
Something like this

To clarify (just in case...) having both ends up from the ground at the same height , the one with the water closer to the opening is at the sloping end.

Franco

Edited by Franco on 11/21/2010 21:21:12 MST.

Tad,

Find a site with a more obvious slope. Then you'll know for sure, no measuring needed :)

I agree....look for a site with a discernible, yet still quite minor slope. I find I sleep better on a slight slope than truly flat ground anyways.

Part of your problem may be that the ground has a slightly dome to it, so regardless of which end your head is at, it it will feel like it's the low end because it's lower than your torso. Choosing a slightly sloped site, or a slightly dished site alleviates this.

Alternatively, you could get Bender to make you a wedge shaped sleeping pad (ie. 3" thick at the head tapering to 1" thick at the feet) so you always have your head at the high end, regardless of the actual ground slope :)

Well, all levels are off to some degree. The easiest way to center it is to flip it around 180 degrees. If the bubble is off the same in both cases, it is level. This is an OLD carpenters trick. No level is ever bad, just the user doesn't know how to use it...ha ha.

The water level works, along with a trench filled with water.

A string, taught between two points will tell you if it is off, too. Simply put a couple drops of water on it at center(fold it in half to get center.) They will migrate toward the low end. I think the Egyptions used a plumb bob and a "T" as opposed to a bubble. 'Corse, this dates back a few thousand years, but still functions just as well. Lots of other ways, but, I really think this is trying too hard. (You do remember how to bisect a line with a compass??)

If it is that close to level, don't camp there. Chances are, in a rain you will get wet.

My thoughts only . . .
jdm

Ray Jardine says you should sleep with your head on the downhill end

> Ray Jardine says you should sleep with your head on the downhill end

Yuk.

Cheers

to eat corn pasta too. You ever eat corn pasta? If Ray Jardine said to go play in the street, would you go play in the street?

"Ray Jardine says you should sleep with your head on the downhill end"

Well, I guess that pretty much settles the issue.

I believe, I believe...
I too will sleep with my head up my ....

I guess I hit a nerve here : )

I thought there were a lot of good, innovative ideas in his book "Beyond Backpacking".

Maybe sleeping with head lower isn't one of those good ideas, even if it's "the Ray Way". Maybe I'll try it sometime.

The one thing I know is I don't want a sideways slope. I'll slide all over. If I can't tell whether the foot or head end is lower, it doesn't matter, but that's just me.

Yeah, sideways is bad. I am constanly rolling over on the wife.
jdm

I am not a medical person, but way back decades ago in college I worked part time in the college infirmary. The nurses there used to say that when they worked long shifts on their feet in nursing school, they would put books under their bedposts at the foot end to raise the foot a couple of inches, and that this would relieve their aching feet overnight.

I find that a very slight uphill position for the feet does help after a long day on them. But this can be done either by propping or slope. Too much head downhill is definitely uncomfortable to the head.

Ray J is certainly right about some things, like needing less stuff (!) and wrong about some things, like corn pasta (yuck!) so we all need to apply our own experience and judgement.

My husband snores, so on backpacking trips in tight quarters we sleep end-to-end to keep my ears a little farther from the snoring. Since he seems to need his head at the up-end of any slope, and I like my feet a bit elevated, this works out pretty well.

On a sideways slope (not too much...) I always get on the upper side so as not to get squashed in the night, and tuck my shoe toes under my lower side to keep myself from rolling down.