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Aaron Reichow
(areichow)

Locale: Northern Minnesota
Re: Sleeping bag ratings on 11/09/2010 23:03:40 MST Print View

Not quite period. Assuming the same lab following the same procedure, close enough.

EDIT: Just ignore me- don't want to divert this thread even more and don't really have a horse in this race.

Edited by areichow on 11/09/2010 23:17:12 MST.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
im not ignoring you babiiii !!! on 11/09/2010 23:49:02 MST Print View

lol

until montbell rates their bags like all those eurobums ... id rather be conservative ... case in point being the summerlite which everyone says is very warm ... yet tests to 35F

another one is the valandre mirage which BPL said

"The warmest bags in this roundup are the Nunatak Alpinist, PHD Minim 400, Sierra Designs Nitro 30/Spark 30, and Valandre Mirage. Three of these bags are rated at 23 F (-5 C)"

yet if you look at the valandre test for that bag, it tests to 30F lower limit comfort ...

http://www.valandre.com/product_images/testresults05112010113809MirageIFT.pdf

i love their marketing spiel ...

Field testers have taken the super light Mirage to 14°F (-10°C) wearing a base layer of underwear and a fleece vest. Even if these are not recommended temperature ratings (metabolism etc. should be considered), field tests have certainly underlined the extraordinary performance of the Mirage.

EN testing isnt perfect ... but its like EPA gas milleage ... its consistent and comparable ... without it marketing departments would just make up any figure they want

i actually give a lot of credit to those companies that have their products tested ... and also to ones like LL bean and Lands End that tests the rating of their clothing scientifically

ultimately do i think 1 or 2 deg matter a lot? ... nope ... worry about other things instead ... a 5F+ gap does look funny though ... and 10F .. well id consider a properly rated and tested bag

if youre young, dumb and full of ... well ... that WM summerlite will prob be a 25F bag for you anyways ;)

here's a sample of the variability in ratings before EN ratings ...




Edited by bearbreeder on 11/10/2010 00:02:44 MST.

Mike W
(skopeo) - F

Locale: British Columbia
New sleeping bag on 11/09/2010 23:58:28 MST Print View

I agree with David, the EN ratings at least provide a reliable baseline.

I also agree that field experience, however subjective, is also valuable. While in theory a Montbell bag stretched to the max might be cooler than it's minimum temp rating would suggest, my field experience would indicate that the natural thing to do in cold temps is to lie very still and "tight" to avoid drafts and not sprawl and create cold air pockets in your bag (whether it's a stretch bag or not).

I've also noted that in tight fitting bags I tend to compress the down when I sprawl and that creates cold spots (knees and elbows mostly)... the stretch bags suffer less from this because it's harder to max them out and compress the down.

Something to consider (especially for us 200+ pounders) is that a stretch bag handles additional layers with ease. This is another factor that should be consider if you plan on pushing the limits of your bag.

Edited by skopeo on 11/10/2010 00:00:27 MST.

Andy F
(AndyF) - M

Locale: Midwest/Midatlantic
Re: New sleeping bag on 11/10/2010 08:07:28 MST Print View

"Something to consider (especially for us 200+ pounders) is that a stretch bag handles additional layers with ease. This is another factor that should be consider if you plan on pushing the limits of your bag."

Good point, and this is much of the reason I selected the stretch bag. Large bags are a little too big for me, but I'm a little too cramped for comfort with an average width bag as soon as I put on just a fleece jacket.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
summerlite on 11/10/2010 08:27:00 MST Print View

I had a Summerlite for a short period, it was a well constructed bag, but too constricting for me- I had a 6' bag and am 6' ~ 200#. Very little to no room for additional layers and my goal was to be able to push the bag a little, which wasn't going to happen. I traded it for a Marmot Hydrogen (a bag not yet mentioned in this thread)- I found the Marmot much more suitable for my build and goal of pushing a bag. It's not outrageously larger, but just enough so that I had the room I needed. I (and many others) have the temp rating of 30 degrees to be very close to spot on. Still a very lightweight bag w/ good construction and quality materials (including 850 down)

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Hydrogen on 11/10/2010 08:41:52 MST Print View

Mike,
I haven't found the perfect 25° bag yet. (And the MB SS #2 isn't it for me.)

I have just discovered that the Marmot line is a good fit for me. (The Megalite is to much volume and the Ultralite is to little.) The Helium, for me, is spot on at 15° with no supplemental clothing, so I'm wondering how low I could take a Hydrogen.

Regarding your "pushing" a Hydrogen sleeping bag -

How far have you pushed it, and what did you supplement with?

Thanks.

Edited by greg23 on 11/10/2010 09:38:50 MST.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Orange County, CA, USA
Re: summerlite on 11/10/2010 11:18:25 MST Print View

Another satisfied Summerlite customer here. I'm 6'0", about 200#. I'm a side sleeper. It doesn't feel particularly constricting to me although it's definitely not a roomy bag. I've worn a Patagonia down hoodie sweater inside the bag which does make it slightly tight, but the combo is pretty warm. I slept out on Oct 8 in about 25F wx (with a Neo Air pad and a inside an OR Aurora bivvy) and was just slightly too warm on my upper body. I'm sure I could take my Summerlite down to 20F in this configuration. I was wearing Pat Capilene #3's, mid weight socks, and a mid weight fleece cap.

The other thing I like about the Summerlite is that I can open it up like a quilt in hotter weather and still be comfortable. It's a very versatile bag and is the perfect bag for the Southern California mountains.

I haven't taken it out in less than 25F. I'd probably switch to a warmer bag if it looked like it might get into the teens. I have a MH Phantom 15 for that (31 oz).

HJ

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Re: Hydrogen on 11/10/2010 12:29:52 MST Print View

Greg- I've taken mine down to the mid 20's a couple of times- pad was NeoAir w/ a thinlight pad on top, I had a ls cap 1 shirt, MB ex light jacket, R1 bavaclava, R1 pants and socks. I was very toasty, albeit I tend to sleep on the warm side.

I've had the Hydrogen into the 30's many times w/ just a base layer top and briefs and a NeoAir (w/o the thinlight pad) and have been very comfortable

If I'm not mistaken the Helium has the same cut as the Hydrogen- so fit wise should be pretty darn close

Mike

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Re: Hydrogen on 11/10/2010 12:35:45 MST Print View

Thanks Mike.
That helps.

Brad Groves
(4quietwoods) - MLife

Locale: Michigan
Re: Re: Hydrogen on 11/11/2010 12:16:11 MST Print View

FWIW, the Marmot bags have a contour cut (inner & outer shell cut the same) and seem to feel better to those kinda between sizes, as it were. Example: a gentleman in the shop tried on a 62" girth Marmot Lithium & a 62" WM Antelope, but found the Lithium more comfortable.