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Dan Durston
(dandydan)

Locale: Cascadia
Prodex Sleeping Pads? on 10/29/2010 16:44:09 MDT Print View

A company called Prodex makes some interesting home insulation products that might be useful as a sleeping pad or winter sleeping pad supplement.

Prodex makes two interesting products:

1 - Prodex Total
This is basically 5mm thick closed cell polyethylene foam with a reflective coating on both sides:

Prodex Total

They claim an R-value of 6-15, but that assumes an air space of a couple inches. It'd be much lower when used as a sleep pad but I can't guess how low. The weight is not listed but it sure looks darn light. The smallest roll you can order is 4' x 25' and $60 which would make you 8 pads....that's just $7.50 per 24" x 74" pad.

A good application might be a torso sized piece under your regular sleeping pad to extend it's use into the winter.

You can get a free 8" x 10" sample for $3.95 shipping here:
http://www.insulation4less.com/Insulation4lessProduct-16-Prodex-Free-8-inch-x-10-inch-sample.aspx

2 - Prodex Reflective-Bubble-Reflective
This product is the same reflective layers but with polyethylene bubble wrap inside. Thickness is 4mm.

Prodex R-B-R

I'd grab a sample from them but their shipping rates to Canada are ridiculous ($60-$100). Even a free 8" x 10" sample could make a good sit pad at virtually no weight I bet. Anyone wanna grab a $60 4' x 25' roll of Prodex Total and divide it up :)

Edited by dandydan on 10/29/2010 16:50:55 MDT.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
reflectix on 10/29/2010 17:02:43 MDT Print View

look a lot like the reflectix you find at home depot

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: reflectix on 10/29/2010 17:13:24 MDT Print View

Yup. Sure looks like Reflectix. Find it at Home Depot, Ace Hardware, and Lowes.

--B.G.--

Dan Durston
(dandydan)

Locale: Cascadia
Reflectix on 10/29/2010 17:15:55 MDT Print View

Reflectix makes a bubble wrap based product that is a lot like the second Prodex product. However, Reflectix is likely a lot heavier as it's 8mm thick instead of 4-5mm.

I also like the idea of using CCF inside like Prodex Total, instead of bubble wrap, because the CCF seems more durable.

Reflectix:

reflectix

Edited by dandydan on 10/29/2010 17:20:32 MDT.

Dan Durston
(dandydan)

Locale: Cascadia
R value on 10/29/2010 17:28:47 MDT Print View

Reflectix claims an R value of 1.1 for their product if there is zero air space on either side.

Prodex total is thinner, but the CCF also looks more insulating than bubble wrap, so I'd wildly guess the R-value of Prodex Total is around 0.8 - 1.5. That's not a lot on it's own, but it would be a good boost under a NeoAir (R 2.5) for winter use. There are other thin pads that could provide this boost, the Prodex Total looks like it could be lighter.

Tyson Marshall
(sheepNgeese) - MLife

Locale: Ventura County (formerly PNW)
Re: Prodex Sleeping Pads? on 10/29/2010 17:33:31 MDT Print View

Hi Dan,

Just ordered a free sample. Let's see what we can do here...

Cheers.

Dan Durston
(dandydan)

Locale: Cascadia
Sample on 10/29/2010 17:35:39 MDT Print View

Nice!

If you can, let us know what it weighs so we can extrapolate that to a larger pad.

Tyson Marshall
(sheepNgeese) - MLife

Locale: Ventura County (formerly PNW)
Re: Sample on 10/29/2010 17:38:29 MDT Print View

Of course! As soon as I get it, I'll weigh it and post. Thanks for the information.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: reflectix on 10/29/2010 17:48:18 MDT Print View

"Yup. Sure looks like Reflectix. Find it at Home Depot, Ace Hardware, and Lowes."

Has anybody tried it in the field? If so, how did it hold up under field conditions? If it is durable enough, it looks like a great alternative to GG Thinlite.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
refelctix on 10/29/2010 18:01:23 MDT Print View

where did u get the 1.1 R value for dan?

http://www.glacierbay.com/Instresult.asp

i think the R value is under 1 for reflectix ...

i was thinking about using it while shopping at HD a while back ... but after doing some research, it seems like the yellow MEC foam pads work better for the weight

Dan Durston
(dandydan)

Locale: Cascadia
Prodex Total on 10/29/2010 18:01:39 MDT Print View

If enough people are interested we could do a collective buy of the Prodex Total. The closed cell foam Prodex Total seems more durable and lighter than Reflectix.

A 4' x 25' roll of Prodex Total is $60 + $20 shipping w/n USA and it would make 8 pads...so that's $10/pad plus shipping from whoever placed the group order to you.

A 4' 50' roll is $90 + $20 shipping or $7/pad for 16 pads.

Dan Durston
(dandydan)

Locale: Cascadia
Re: refelctix on 10/29/2010 18:06:53 MDT Print View

"Where did u get the 1.1 R value for dan?"

Off Reflectix's site:

reflext

"It seems like the yellow MEC foam pads work better for the weight."

The yellow (Evazote) MEC pads are pretty darn heavy and the R-value is pretty low. The lightest one is 60" x 20&quot and 5mm thick. It's 6.2oz and has a R-value of 0.66. A theoretical full length (72") version of this would be 7.5oz which is a lot of weight for not much R-value.

I'm hoping the Prodex Total weighs 1/3rd of that and has a nearly double the R-value. Even if the reflective layers do very little, the CCF looks extremely light for CCF.

Edited by dandydan on 10/29/2010 18:12:18 MDT.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
mec yelllow thnang on 10/29/2010 18:40:00 MDT Print View

dan ...

the reflectix is listed as 1.25 oz/ ft2 ... so 11.25 oz/ yd 2 ... for an R value of 1.1 if we accept the manuf claim (see the link I posted) ... which is an R per oz/yd of 0.097

the mec yellow standard 13.75 oz / yd if my math is correct ... for an R value of 1.6 .. R per oz/yd of 0.116

the mec yellow thermalest zlite (the one i was taking about) is 12.93 oz / yd 2 ... for an R value of 2.2 ... giving and R per oz/yd of 0.17

unless my math is way off (i AM azn ... lol) ... relfectix isnt worth it for this application

Dan Durston
(dandydan)

Locale: Cascadia
Re: mec yelllow thnang on 10/29/2010 19:03:47 MDT Print View

HomeDepot lists a 4' x 25' roll of Reflectix at 6 lbs, which is 0.95oz/ft2:
http://www.homedepot.com/buy/building-materials/insulation/reflectix/4-ft-x-25-ft-double-reflective-insulation-20958.html

I suspect even this weight is too high because 6 lbs seems to be the weight they use to calculating shipping costs so it's probably a bit inflated. I'd guess it's the actual product is more like 0.75oz/ft2, but that's just a guess.

Prodex should be quite a bit lighter still because it's 5mm thick instead of 8mm. I think 0.5oz/ft2 is a reasonable estimate. That would put Prodex Total at 3.5oz for a 20" x 48" pad or 5.25oz for a full 6' pad.

Comparing Full Length Pads Weight vs. R-Value:
NeoAir: R 2.5 / 14oz = .18
Prodex Total: R 1.1 / 5.25oz = .21
ZLite: R 2.2 / 14oz = .16
RidgeRest: R 2.6 / 14oz = .19
RidgeRest Solar: R 3.5 / 19oz = .19

Of course the Prodex R value and weight are based on wild assumptions. The R value of the Prodex Total is really an unknown because CCF is quite a bit different than bubble wrap Reflectix.

Edited by dandydan on 10/29/2010 19:16:09 MDT.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
reflectix on 10/29/2010 19:19:51 MDT Print View

its 1.25 oz/ft according to their lit ...


http://reflectixinc.cskern.com/images/uploads/allpdfs/f3%20oem%20guide.pdf

the numbers for prodex look very very optimistic ...

i suspect that if it really was that good, someone would have sold it for camping already ...

Edited by bearbreeder on 10/29/2010 19:21:02 MDT.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: reflectix on 10/29/2010 19:23:41 MDT Print View

"Has anybody tried it in the field? If so, how did it hold up under field conditions? "

I've used it for the normal items like a food cozy, stove windshield, etc. I made some reflectix shower slippers.

It is not nearly as tough as closed cell foam, but then it is just filled up with air bubbles.

--B.G.--

Tyson Marshall
(sheepNgeese) - MLife

Locale: Ventura County (formerly PNW)
Re: Prodex Sleeping Pads? on 11/08/2010 10:22:56 MST Print View

I haven't been home in a few days, but I'm hoping the Prodex sample is there! I will keep you updated - just wanted to let you know I didn't forget!

Tyson Marshall
(sheepNgeese) - MLife

Locale: Ventura County (formerly PNW)
Re: Prodex Sleeping Pads? on 11/09/2010 16:27:24 MST Print View

Alright, the results are in.

Prodex Total observations:

Thickness: .125 to .187" (3.175 to 4.7625mm)

Weight: .48oz (~13.61g) for an 8" x 10" sample piece (there was a sticker, slapped on the surface, covering almost half of one side, that I couldn't entirely remove... weight should be SLIGHTLY less)

So, if I did my math right, a 24" x 74" pad would weigh ~ 10.66oz

That's all I've got for now...

Dan Durston
(dandydan)

Locale: Cascadia
Prodex on 11/11/2010 13:32:51 MST Print View

Thanks Tyson!

So that works out to 0.89oz/sq ft or 8.6oz for 20" x 72" pad. That's not bad, but a bit heavier than hoped.

The real unknown here is the R-value. If the CCF foam provides a significantly better R-value than the bubble wrap used in Reflectix then it could be a good product.

It seems like Prodex might be a decent pad option, but it's not going to be a radical improvement over what's out there. At 8.6oz for a R 1.1 20" x 72" pad, you're getting 0.13 R-value per ounce of weight, which is actually worse than a lot of other options out there as posted previously in this thread. However, it's possible that the R-value might be a bit higher. If it was R-1.5, then it would good R-value for the weight.

Tyson Marshall
(sheepNgeese) - MLife

Locale: Ventura County (formerly PNW)
Re: Prodex on 11/12/2010 16:36:24 MST Print View

At lunch, I converted the prodex sample into a cozy for my Snow Peak 600ml Titanium Mug. (first cozy experience)

I filled the mug with hot water (not boiling) from the hot water dispenser at work and put it in the cozy w/ a prodex lid. It's been 1.75 hours and the water is still too hot to gulp down....

Because I don't have any experience with other cozies, I don't know if this is bad, normal, or great.

No exact numbers here, just thought I'd share some observations...