Training & Workout
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Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Eastern Sierra Fitness on 11/29/2010 20:11:28 MST Print View

"I have found few activities that are as intense as snowshoeing with elevation gain."

A huge +1. I would add that for those who do not have access to that kind of snowshoeing, or live in warmer climes, working out in a gym on a Step Mill(NOT a Stairmaster) can provide a reasonable approximation. This is particularly true if you wear a pack with, say, 20# or so to simulate a winter day hike load.

Jamie Hout
(jamiehout) - F
Try health products on 12/12/2010 16:58:18 MST Print View

it is better to accompany your training and exercise with health products and supplements. I have been using this product 'colon cleanse'

---------------------
Jamie

Any more spamming like this and you will be banned.

Colon cleansing indeed! Brain cleansing might be more useful in this case.
And one does NOT need dodgy health products from the seedy underworld of pseudo-medicine either.

Yours
Roger Caffin
Online Community Monitor
Backpacking Light
PS: to the rest of our readers - sorry about that, but really...

Edited by rcaffin on 12/12/2010 19:00:09 MST.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Try health products on 12/12/2010 17:34:49 MST Print View

"article marketing ... with intent of driving traffic to an affiiate offer to make money!"

That's not what you're trying to do, is it Jamie?

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Try health products on 12/12/2010 18:10:42 MST Print View

"That's not what you're trying to do, is it Jamie?"

Perish the thought! Shame on you, Douglas!!

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
2nd post on 12/12/2010 18:17:37 MST Print View

interesting second post on the forums

Mike Spain
(maspain) - F

Locale: Georgia
Opinion on 01/28/2011 11:28:45 MST Print View

I am curious to hear opinions on training with a weighted pack, not necessarily with all your gear. I bought 50 lbs of bird seed for $12 and have filled a couple layers of garbage bags and put it in my pack. It weighs 25 lbs to start. Then hit the treadmill for 30 min or so as time allows. My plan is keep increasing weight and time, then to hit the local park that has 10-20 miles of trails 1-2 times per week as the weather improves.

Thoughts?


Mike

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Opinion on 01/28/2011 11:42:48 MST Print View

if endurance and power are your goals then training with a weighted pack will be helpful.

if speed is your goal (a fastpacking project) then never train with a pack heavier than the one you will use on your project. training with a heavy pack makes you stronger, but I've found it slows your cadence and pace.

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Re: Opinion on 01/28/2011 11:58:23 MST Print View

Mike,
My suggestion for treadmill workout without knowing what kind of physical condition you're in. Keep the pack at home.

Assume your 80% max speed is 4.0mph
Absolutely no holding on!

Workout 1 - Speed

@.5deg incline
warmup from 3.0 to 4.0 over 10 minutes increasing .1mph per minute.

Start of workout
5 minutes at 4.0
Ramp up from 4.0 to absolute max (like you're falling off) increasing .1mph per minute
After max speed reached recover at 4.0 for 5 minutes.

Repeat at 3,6 & 9 deg incline.
cooldown starting at 4.0mph decreasing .1 mph per minute down to 3mph.

Look to maintain your max speed on each incline.


Workout 2 - Incline

@.5deg incline
warmup from 3.0 to 4.0 over 10 minutes increasing .1mph per minute.

Start of workout
Increase 1 deg per minute up to say 10-12 deg incline. (increase over time)
Walk 20 minutes at max elevation (increase over time.)
Decrease 1 deg per minute down to .5 deg incline.
cooldown starting at 4.0mph decreasing .1 mph per minute down to 3mph.

Workout 3 - Running
Warmup walk then run at comfortable speed for x minutes.

Workout 4 - Decline
If you are lucky enough to have a gym with a decline then you can also max walk this at a decline.

Each of these workout will work slightly different muscles and can significantly increase your comfortable walking speed. I found that my natural walking speed has significantly increased. It now a sporting event to walk next to the moving sidewalk in the tunnel of the ATL airport and outpace everyone walking on the moving sidewalk. These are also great cardio workouts. I generally will have my heartrate up over 170 at the max point in these routines.

Enjoy

Edited by gg-man on 01/28/2011 12:00:04 MST.

Ryan Jordan
(ryan) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Greater Yellowstone
Training Simplified on 01/28/2011 13:37:38 MST Print View

I hate "training".

I love integrating "trip preparation" into my lifestyle.

I like simplicity, and like to apply Occam's Razor to this, focusing on five things:

- insulinemic stability
- simplicity
- time constraints
- observable, and measurable results
- no suffering

I've also learned that training is pretty overrated for backpacking, unless you are seriously out of shape. A light pack, low body fat, and a good diet go farther than gym time.

Here's my approach.

1. If you are overweight, lose the weight. This is not training. It's just a prerequisite. Until you lose the weight, forget about training. If you're a man, get your body fat down below 20% (measured w/calipers etc., not BMI). Then you can start training.

2. Don't waste a lot of time. High intensity, short duration, frequent. Think 10 minute workouts to the point of collapse, 3-6 times a day. Much easier to integrate into a normal lifestyle, and high intensity short duration transfers extremely well to backpacking. There is a myth that "to get in shape for backpacking, go backpacking". A fine thought but a huge investment of time if you aren't a thru-hiker, and very painful for the first few weeks.

3. Be simple. Do your workout in the bathroom, or the office, or your house, or on the side of the road. Best ones for backpackers: high repetitions of unweighted full squats, or, to improve your strength as the season gets closer, full squats while wearing a big pack. Squats, and push ups for core development. Do both until you are ready to puke. It takes less than 10 minutes. Repeat 3-6 times a day. No gym membership, no equipment, no fooling around, and it just plain works.

4. Forget aerobic fitness. Once you lose the weight you'll get there soon enough. Mostly, when you're out of breath on the trail, it's because your quads are underdeveloped, your core is sloppy, you are carrying too heavy of a pack, you are carrying too heavy of a gut, or you've screwed up your insulin stability with crappy foods.

5. Eliminate bad foods. Bad foods for backpackers: anything that has a high insulinemic index (ignore glycemic index, you're not a marathon runner), whether it's on the trail, or at home. Don't count calories. Just eat, and eat slowly (so you can better sense when you're full). Ramp up protein significantly so you can build your muscle mass (especially after you lose your weight). Eat lean meats and don't make high fat foods a staple at home while you're "training" and "optimizing your body weight/mass" (see below). Don't fool around with "diet" membership programs (WW et al.). They're only there to take your money, and have no clue what a backpacker needs.

If you are doing a "big trip", target a body fat reserve so that after you do your calorie balance and calculate how much body fat you'll lose on the trip (see here for an example that works well enough), make sure you have 3-5% in reserve. Example: if you're going on a 3 week expedition and you know you are going to lose 15 lbs of body fat to help fuel you in addition to the food you bring, you weigh 160 lbs:

- your 5% body fat reserve = 0.05 * 160 = 8 lbs
- add this to the 15 lbs that you'll burn = 23 lbs
- target body fat % at 160 lbs = 23/160 = 14.4%

In other words, you wouldn't want to take your body fat below 14.4%. If you do, then you better pack more food, etc. etc. But don't take this to an extreme. If you are carrying more than 20% of body fat, this little theory goes sort of goes to pot: lose the weight.

You can use cheap calipers, a buddy to help, the 7-point Jackson-Pollack method, and a bathroom scale to monitor all this.

It's way, way simpler that fooling around with a personal trainer and an expensive gym membership, and in my experience, a whole lot more effective. If it's simple, and you can see the results, you'll believe it, and you'll stick to it.

Plus, it's really easy to maintain, and you'll be fit for the rest of your life because it's that simple.

This allows me to work at a desk all week and then go rip it up with 30 mile days on the weekend, and I sure ain't no Andy Skurka...! After a holiday binge, I returned to the above and since 12/28 have lost 10 lbs and reduced body fat by more than 3%, and I haven't set foot in a gym or done any workout longer than 15 minutes or starved myself or counted calories or do or feel anything else that would indicate that I feel like I'm sacrificing anything.

Caveat: I still eat pizza once a week ;)

Brian Gentry
(Treegreen) - F
Training & Workout on 01/28/2011 14:36:58 MST Print View

This is my first post, although I've lurked for a while, and I think Ryan has provided some very good advice with a focus on the types of foods we're eating. You can eat more as long as that more is better for you. As far as training, I've been doing Crossfit for a while now and it definitely made a difference in my aerobic endurance and strength while hiking. Unfortunately, many local boxes are just taking advantage of the "fitness craze" and charging outrageous prices. My wife and I are lucky enough to live near an very reasonably priced affiliate and have loved every minute of it. We don't pay any more than we would for a normal gym membership and have the added benefit of working with trainers and a class atmosphere.

The types of full body training they do has been really helpful because during the "off-season" (we don't winter camp and live in intermountain west so that's a number of months where we'd be otherwise sedate except for skiing/snowboarding) we're still working on aerobic and strength interval training. That being said, I think one of the bigger things that have helped our overall health has been a more concerted approach at eating better and identifying local vendors that provide things like lean grass-fed meats and free range chicken. I've been surprised how much better I feel and how much more energy we have just cutting out random things like overly processed foods and sugars.

Edited by Treegreen on 01/28/2011 14:37:45 MST.

Tad Englund
(bestbuilder) - F - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Training Simplified on 01/28/2011 15:36:05 MST Print View

Ryan, thank you for your post on this subject. I do have a few questions that I'd like clarified (I'm not trying to push "Ockham's Messer", on this just trying to get a handle on it).

>Don't waste a lot of time. High intensity, short duration, frequent. Think 10 minute workouts to the point of collapse, 3-6 times a day<
1. 10 minutes times 3-6 is 1 hour each day.
2. How do you stay "fragrantly neutral" while doing some of these at work? Yes, deodorant helps, but not always 100%.

> Do both until you are ready to puke. It takes less than 10 minutes. Repeat 3-6 times a day<
1. Being ready to puke might not be the best way to start a sales presentation. Of course the sweat rolling down your brow might make them think that you will go to the mat for them.

I agree with all you have said and I know there is a time and place for everything. Most of us just use everyday schedules as an excuse not to do what is needed or required to get into shape.

Jonathan Ryan
(Jkrew81) - F - M

Locale: White Mtns
Re: Training Simplified on 01/28/2011 16:12:46 MST Print View

Great post Ryan, make it a lifestyle and it is not "training". When the days are long and hot I road run to a lake to swim, when it is snowy and cold I XC ski and shovel and all the days in between I trail run with my dog and do a 3x a week calisthenic routine.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Training Simplified on 01/28/2011 17:39:48 MST Print View

"If you are doing a "big trip", target a body fat reserve so that after you do your calorie balance and calculate how much body fat you'll lose on the trip (see here for an example that works well enough), make sure you have 3-5% in reserve. Example: if you're going on a 3 week expedition and you know you are going to lose 15 lbs of body fat to help fuel you in addition to the food you bring, you weigh 160 lbs:

- your 5% body fat reserve = 0.05 * 160 = 8 lbs
- add this to the 15 lbs that you'll burn = 23 lbs
- target body fat % at 160 lbs = 23/160 = 14.4%

In other words, you wouldn't want to take your body fat below 14.4%. If you do, then you better pack more food, etc. etc. But don't take this to an extreme. If you are carrying more than 20% of body fat, this little theory goes sort of goes to pot: lose the weight.

You can use cheap calipers, a buddy to help, the 7-point Jackson-Pollack method, and a bathroom scale to monitor all this."

A huge +1. I know this technique has been discussed before but I, for one, am very glad to see it mentioned again, particularly by someone with RJ's credibility. It is a very important concept to understand for those planning longer trips, and a great way to reduce your pack weight as well on trips of any duration over 3-4 days.

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: Training Simplified on 01/28/2011 21:44:00 MST Print View

Every weekend that I can not backpack, I try to walk one or two days for 1.5 to 2 hr including about .5 hr of climbing steep stone steps at a nearby campus. I often wear a myog "pack" that carries two 10 lb dumbells. It works well for me.

During the work week, two - five times per week I walk about 40-50 minutes.

I'm really serious about eating good stuff - no junk. I've found that your mind is what keeps you fat or keeps you lean. Read about how your brain tries to retain and regain body weight. That's why most people can't lose lbs and those that do put it back on. It is all in your mind.

Agree with Ryan. SIMPLIFY. Do that and your life will become better.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Re: Training Simplified on 01/28/2011 22:11:06 MST Print View

"Read about how your brain tries to retain and regain body weight."

George,
Got any references? I'd love to learn more about setpoints and how to change them.

Thanks.

Ryan Jordan
(ryan) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Greater Yellowstone
Drops of Sweat, B.O., and Setpoint Theory on 01/28/2011 23:13:57 MST Print View

It's easy to get to the point of puking in 10 minutes without actually sweating a lot.

*** secret trick ***
When you do your top secret bathroom workout, take off your shirt, do your workout, then clean up with a wet paper towel. This is great fun in public restrooms when some dude walks in seeing you do squats. Just tell him it improves pheromone release or something. He just might join in.

Set point theory is fascinating. I like to rename it "set point dynamic theory".

Mainly because if you eat an unrestricted diet, your set point gets set higher ... and higher ... and higher ...

pack nwcurt
(curtpeterson) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Training & Workout on 01/29/2011 08:29:27 MST Print View

Good stuff in here. I'm a big fan of the minimum effective dose ideas. It's amazing what 20 minutes done right can achieve. I used to lift weights for hours everyday as a college athlete to get pretty small improvements. Granted, the goals are completely different now, but maintaining or even increasing strength and fitness can be done with minimal time. Also a big fan of the no-gym ideas. All of this is very Tim Ferriss-esque - is that where you're getting some of this?

Ryan - I'd love to see a thoughtful article on backpacking food. I know there have been many in the past, but most backpacking food is totally focused on highly insulinemic foods. Ways to get protein and good fats into a backpacking trip that is reasonable in carry-weight would be awesome. No pasta, no rice, no oatmeal - all the normal staples of the typical backpacking fare - would be fascinating. I still think backpacking food is one of the great untapped areas for packweight reduction and hacking. It's often the heaviest single thing a backpacker carries, yet we discuss it very little. Funny how we'll generate pages of discussion on 4 or 5 gram weight savings on an item and then toss literally pounds of food into the pack at the end with little thought. Makes no sense to me.

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Training Simplified Even More on 01/29/2011 16:00:21 MST Print View

Just did a nice long hike and had plenty of time to think about this. Since we're off of the OP question.....

Lean and Mean
Eat less calories than you burn
Do some physical exercise but if you are going to do it push yourself a bit and stick with it.

Everything else from particular workouts, insulinemic stability, electrolytes, caffeine, ribose, glutamine, Glycemic Index, maltodextrin vs simple sugars, whey vs soy.......... are all optimizations. Can they help sure, but for 90% of Americans they have such a long way to go before they have to worry about such issues.

Edited by gg-man on 01/29/2011 16:37:04 MST.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
exercise on 01/29/2011 16:21:42 MST Print View

the secret? ... getting off you lazy azz and go doing it

sure there may be things that are more effective than others ... but if you dont enjoy it, its not going to last

id rather do something "less" effective that i enjoy for 2 hours a day than something "more" effective that i get bored of for 30 min a day

Jason Elsworth
(jephoto) - M

Locale: New Zealand
Backacking food on 01/29/2011 16:43:06 MST Print View

I would love to see an extensive article on food. However, food is a very personal issue and most people seem to do OK on stuff that would be a real problem for me.

I have to follow a low GI, sugar free diet day to day (due to hypoglycaemia issues) and have tried to transfer this over to my backpacking food plan. My last trip was the most successful to date in is this regard. Below is a summary.

Breakfast
Porridge half a cup
Ghee (0.5 tablespoon)
soy protein powder 1 scoop
Salt
Cinamon

Food during day
Almond and brazil nut organic butter

Mixture of dried chickpeas and crackers made from stone ground organic Rye, Millet and Buckwheat Flours, cold Pressed Sunflower Oil, Sesame Seed, Linseed, Sea Salt, Pumpkin Seeds.

Jerky

Dinner (Carbs to protein 3:1)
Buckwheat or occasionally noodles made from rice or beans.
Ghee
Salami

A whey Protein powder supper for supper

If these http://www.adventureegg.com/ were available in New Zealand I would consider them for breakfast. A bit heavy but one every few days would be fantastic.