Companion forum thread to:

Vaude Power Lizard UL Tent Review

Thanks for the review. It looks a little too narrow and low on headroom to be my 2 person tent of choice.

I'm hoping that the Easton Kilo will live up to it's claimed specs of a 910g weight, 44" roof height and a 56" x 91" floor when it comes out in the spring. If it can get close to that, it'll be a much more livable 2 person tent for less weight.

Edited by dandydan on 10/26/2010 16:59:41 MDT.

Thanks Will. I looked at a few 2 person "lightweight" tents for my wife and I, plus our K9 troop. The lack of space and price points sent me to a Mid. With the mid I can set up the mid only to ride out afternoon storms or just sleep under it when the dogs aren't along. When conditions dictate, I can set up the bug shelter underneath. Sure, I don't have the weight savings of the Lizard, but I'm 6'5" and my sanity/marriage depend on a bit of elbow room in the morning/evening.

Great report. I think I'll continue to use a single-wall tent in blustery/rainy/snowy conditions when I don't use a tarp or mid. My single walls never sag when wet and have very little wind noise.

I use a Black Diamond Lighthouse for backpacking and some lightweight motorcycle touring (Durango-Maine-Quebec-Durango last year) and a Bibler Awahnee for more extreme conditions above 15,000 or Winter mountaineering. Both of these set up very tight with no pegs at the floor but 2-4 midpoint guylines to rocks, skis or brush.

I'm really surprised that the Big Agnes Fly Creek UL2 wasn't added to the comparison charts. The stats listed on BPL's review of the Fly Creek 2 would suggest that it may be the closest competitor to the Power Lizard.

The Fly Creek weighed in at 38.24 oz and the Power Lizard at 36.5. The Fly Creek has a floor area of 28 Sq ft and the Power Lizard has 23.8 sq ft. I'd argue that if the Fly Creek used the same Ti shepard hooks that the Power Lizard uses, it would be a lighter 2 person double wall shelter (the aluminium stakes for the FC weigh in at 4 oz.).

The hooped pole and side entry design links the "comparable" tents.

The Fly Creek is far different, and IMHO, has far less usable volume.

>> The hooped pole and side entry design links the "comparable" tents. <<

OK, oversight on my part (comparable design).

The usable space thing is a personal thing. Either tent will require you to know your partner very well and I prefer not to climb over somebody in the middle of the night. YMMV.

I do like that it's a double wall though.

According to Sackundpack (german outdoor shop) the moment weighs 830g, the scarp 1 with solid inner weighs 1442g and the scarp 2 1750g. If those measurements are accurate the Scarps are far less attractive.

I own a 1p terra nova laser comp (TNLC). Although its claimed weight is 890g, the weight for normal usage (incl. decent pegs + polecover) is +/-1050g. This makes the Power lizard even a decent alternative for the TNLC, although its headspace of 89cm might be too limited for a person of 6'4".

( Other Characteristics of the TNLC are similar to the Laser and the Power lizard. Warm but condensation prone and poor ventilation )

For a solo hiker equipped with hiking poles the lightheart solo (27oz/765g advertised) might be a decent alternative.

Perhaps I have missed something but what happens to the condensation that builds up under the fly if you cannot separate the fly from the inner. Unless the inner of the fly can be dried before it is packed then the whole lot will become wet.

Thanks for the review.
Gordon

My Scarp 1 was 1260g when delivered before seam sealing.
(each batch is a bit different)
That is fly/inner/stff sac and pole.
The supplied Easton pegs (6x 8') are 90g however that is not a fair comparison with the TN type.
Weight is important but of course usable space headroom and ventilation are important too ....
Note that the total covered area is about 2 feet larger under the Scarp 1.
oh, and yes you can detach the inner if you like.
Franco

> what happens to the condensation that builds up under the fly if you cannot
> separate the fly from the inner.

Well, in many years of snow camping with a double-wall tunnel tent (which I never split up), that has never been a problem. If the condensation is water, it seems to evaporate and dry off fairly easily. Anyhow, the light inner fabric cannot hold much water, so there's little to worry about. And pitching the inner first in pouring rain is simply stupid imho.

And if the condensation is ice ... well, tough. I do remember once opening my tent up 2 days later after we had got home, and the ice fell out of it. Fortunately, I did that outside! Normally, the inner tent sheds the ice next evening.

It really is NOT a problem, ever.

Cheers

Anyone other than me notice a pattern evolving here?

Pretty soon I bet we will see a 2-person, double walled tent tipping the scales at 20 oz. with a whopping 16 Sq’ of floor space.

I do not know if they are just trying to market the "2-person tents" as simply a roomy one person, but tents are starting to shrink to the square feet of most of my 1-person tarps and tents.

I understand the quest to go lighter, but let's compare apples to apples, not grapes to apples.

Edited by johnatha1 on 10/29/2010 10:01:11 MDT.

Well Roger I would say that you have about ten more years of experience of walking and snow camping than my 38 but obviously different experiences influence ones thinking and preferences.

I also prefer a "double wall pitch the fly first" style tents. But day after day of walking in the rain, when it is raining when the tent is pitched and raining when it is packed away can cause you to have a wet fly inside and out. I have seen and experienced tents packed up as one unit and they become wet miserable affairs. It is fine if the weather is nice in the morning or in the afternoon. The tent will dry out, both inner and fly. That is also my experience with tarptents, not that I dislike them. Horses for courses.

The other great thing about being able to split the inner and unpitch the fly last is that when the winds are blowing and the rain is falling you can pull down the inner, sit under the fly nicely sheltered and pack your gear, put on your wet weather coat etc then venture out into the storm to whip down the fly.

By the way I also have "pitch the inner first" style tents and it is possible to pitch and unpitch them when it is raining (but not too windy)without getting the inner wet. Admittedly it works best with at least three or four people.

But the result of my experience and that is not just my own tents but 1000's of school kids worth of tent nights plus trips with friends; is that I would never buy a tent where the inner couldn't be separated from the fly.

Best regards,
Gordon

Hi Gordon

> I have seen and experienced tents packed up as one unit and they become wet miserable affairs.
Different tents maybe?
My experience has mainly been with the Macpac Olympus and my 2-man double-wall 3 and 4 pole tents. Yeah, I've had a wet inner tent many times. But the walls on all those tents don't hold much water - maybe a good DWR on the inner tent. So they are not a problem.

> The other great thing about being able to split the inner and unpitch the fly last
> is that when the winds are blowing and the rain is falling you can pull
> down the inner, sit under the fly nicely sheltered and pack your gear, put
> on your wet weather coat etc then venture out into the storm to whip down the fly.
??????? Huh ?????? (sorry)
I can't count the number of times we have fully dressed and fully packed inside the tent in a storm, then right at the end pulled it down as a single unit, packed it away on the top of my pack and started walking. How else would one do it?

I guess if you want to split the tent after it has been pulled down it might get messy, but I haven't done that in 20 years. I find it simply unnecessary: we share weight in other ways. And keeping the tent together is so much faster!

> pitch the inner first" style tents .... it works best with at least three or four people.
Ah yes, I have seen videos of groups pitching tents in a storm. Very amusing, some of them. But I have to be able to pitch and strike our tunnel tent single-handed in a storm - which I can do very easily. Even if I have to crawl around the tent, as in "When Things Go Wrong".

> I would never buy a tent where the inner couldn't be separated from the fly.
Not going to argue with you there. ALL my double-skin tents can be split. Great stuff, Velcro. I just never split them in the field.

Cheers

Edited by rcaffin on 10/31/2010 01:38:40 MDT.

"Perhaps I have missed something but what happens to the condensation that builds up under the fly if you cannot separate the fly from the inner. Unless the inner of the fly can be dried before it is packed then the whole lot will become wet."

In my experience, Gordon, I end up carrying the condensation to my next pitch. I have never successfully shaken all of the rain and condensation off a tent and prefer not to hang around until Britain's weak sun dries the shelter, so I end up hauling water I can't drink.

Disconnecting the Akto's inner is a slight pain, given its 14 points of attachment, but has to be done when the fly is wet or everything ends up soaked. I can't see it being any different for any other all in one pitching tent. Water gets on everything once it's inside the shelter's stuff sack.

I have pitched tents at lunchtime, and for out and back summit dashes, to dry them out but that just attracts more rain.

"Disconnecting the Akto's inner is a slight pain, given its 14 points of attachment, but has to be done when the fly is wet or everything ends up soaked. I can't see it being any different for any other all in one pitching tent. Water gets on everything once it's inside the shelter's stuff sack."

Strange - I have never had the inner wetted out in this case. Are you leaving the door open on the inner?

I agree John. I disconnect my Akto inner if the fly is wet before I pack up. Just trying to keep my inner drier.Of course as Roger has pointed out pitching and unpitching with both connected is quicker. That's the beauty of that style of tent.

I first encountered fly "pitched first tents" in The UK back in 1980. I bought one. They made sense in wet environments, which can be true of SE Australia (especially Tasmanania) at times. I bought a Fjallraven two pole A frame in 1976. It could be pitched that way also with a bit of fiddling. Obviously the Scandanavians were experimenting and the Hilleberg tents being the outcome. The Kiwis were developing their own versions about then also.

All the best,
Gordon