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Elizabeth Tracy
(mariposa) - M

Locale: Outside
My turn to submit a gear list! on 10/24/2010 17:03:39 MDT Print View

Hi all,

Here’s a current gear list for you to please be critical of. It’s based on a lot of equipment tweaks I’ve made this past summer, after trips. **Edited to adjust sleeping bag & Esbit weights.**

It turned out heavier than I thought! So I need some help.

Some notes,

• Weights are for a 3-day, 2-night trip, me hiking solo

• Conditions: Typical midsummer high-elevation Sierras (warm days; cold nights; mostly dry, thus no rain pants etc.)

• I sleep *very* cold. I cannot reduce the combined warmth of the clothes represented on this list. Yes, I wear every single piece to bed in my 15-degree bag. Even the rain jacket is used at night (it spreads out under my feet in case the feet wander from the sit pad). Unless the night is pretty warm, I need to supplement the sleep socks with a hot water bottle. During the colder nights of September I had to bring my even warmer, heavier down jacket (not listed here).

• Generally, I would like to own just *one* backpacking kit, that could work for either one or two people. Thus, I have a two-person tent, a two-person pot, and a two-person bear canister. I *might* be willing to invest in lighter, one-person alternatives, here and there, if there is a dirt-cheap way to do it. However, I’d prefer to reduce in other areas, that won’t require owning 2 versions of something.

Thank you in advance!
Elizabeth


PACK
29.5 Osprey Talon 30L (already cut off 5 oz. of straps, etc.)
2.2 Meritline drybag as packliner
31.7 oz. (2.0 lb.) Subtotal Pack


SHELTER
29.6 Tarptent Squall (old-style 2-person), back pole only, no stuffsack
1.0 Five titanium stakes
0.5 Aluminum “drive” stake (needed b/c the lousy titanium stakes go in poorly in the rocky Sierras)
0.8 REI snow stake (doubles as a potty trowel)
2.8 Polycryo groundsheet, size L
34.7 oz. (2.2 lb.) Subtotal Shelter


SLEEPING
33.2 Mountain Hardwear Women’s Phantom 15 down bag (no stuffsack)
14.0 POE Ether 6 inflatable pad, 2/3 length (no stuffsack)
0.4 POE Ether 6 repair kit
1.5 Gossamer Gear Sitpad (used to lengthen sleeping pad, & sit in camp)
1.6 Pillow: Granite Gear fleece-covered stuffsack
50.7 oz. (3.2 lb.) Subtotal Sleeping


COOKING
0.5 Titanium Esbit wing stove
1.7 Trail Designs Vari-Vent 6-inch-high windscreen
0.3 Square of foil under Esbit stove (to reflect heat)
5.0 Ten Esbit tabs @0.5 oz. each (not base weight so not counted here)
0.5 Homemade round cozy top (foam+foil) for pot (reduces # of Esbits needed)
1.6 Fleece cap as pot cozy (reduces # of Esbits needed)
0.5 OPsak, 12x12 to store stove/fuel (smellproof/waterproof)
4.6 Evernew titanium pot, 1.3L
0.4 Gallon-sized ziplock bag to store pot (protect from Esbit residue on pot bottom)
5.6 Kleen Kanteen 12-oz. single-walled stainless steel lidded bottle w/beer-can cozy (quadruple use as: Mug; hot-water bottle at night; water-scooper to fill Platypus; and bottom of lid as emergency mirror)
0.4 Lexan spoon
1.5 Opsak for food, no-smell, 12.5x20 (either on its own, or to line bear canister)
0.1 Diamond Strike-On-Box match box
0.4 Mini Bic lighter (actually stored separately in waterproof repair/med kit)
18.1 oz. (1.1 lb.) Subtotal Cooking


HYDRATION/WATER TREATMENT
3.6 Platypus 2.5-liter bladder, with hose
0.1 Platypus cap
1.6 Aquamira, repackaged into mini dropper bottles
5.3 oz. (.33 lb.) Subtotal Hydration


MEDICAL/REPAIR
1.5 Med/repair kit in Aloksak, stored away
0.4 Razor blade & sewing needle wrapped in a few feet of duct tape
0.1 Moleskin, one sheet
0.1 Athletic tape (blister prevention)
0.5 Bodyglide in tiny flip-lid container (blister prevention)
0.4 Arnica gel in tiny flip-lid container (soothe sore feet)
3.0 oz. (.19 lb.) Subtotal Med/Repair


TOILETRIES
1.5 Sunscreen, 1 oz. in mini-bottle
0.1 Ecodent (baking soda) toothpaste
0.1 Mini-toothbrush
- Strands of floss in baggie
0.4 Lipbalm
0.6 Hand sanitizer
0.7 Toilet paper for 3 days, in ziplock
0.2 Wet wipes (2)
3.6 oz. (.23 lb.) Subtotal Toiletries


MISC.
6.2 Camera (in homemade bubble-wrap case & mini-Aloksak)
2.1 Sea to Summit Ultrasil pack (dayhike pack; also used as stuffsack)
1.0 Fenix mini-flashlight, with battery
0.2 Photon light (backup for Fenix)
0.6 Mini swiss army knife (mostly for the scissors)
1.4 Mini Gerber knife (emergency, but also for cutting veggies/garlic)
1.3 Watch with altimeter/barometer
1.5 Good compass w/declination; no lanyard
0.7 Mosquito headnet
0.9 Mosquito repellant, 1-oz. Repel Picaridin (not full)
0.1 Mini-pen
0.6 Mini-notebook
1.0 Map, permit, xeroxes from guidebook, everything trimmed
0.5 Aloksak bag for maps
0.5 Handkerchief
- Eyeglasses rag
0.9 Seattle Sports waterproof plastic wallet with ID, credit card, $40
0.4 Car key
19.9 oz. (1.2 lb.) Subtotal Misc.


CLOTHES: PACKED
6.5 Wool long underwear bottoms (can hike in them)
9.7 Fleece long-sleeve with hood (sometimes hiked in)
8 Outdoor Research Paclite waterproof rain jacket
6.8 Montbell down red sweater, long-sleeve
3.2 Very thin, 100% angora sweater (camp only)
1.1 Angora neckwarmer
1.9 Angora sleep socks
1.5 Smartwool midweight, low-cut socks (spare)
0.5 Tech underwear (spare)
39.2 oz. (2.45 lb.) Subtotal Packed Clothes


WORN/CARRIED
23.5 Asics Trail Attack trail runners with Superfeet inserts
4.9 Sporthill shorts
4.4 Short-sleeve shirt, microweight wool
1.5 Smartwool midweight, low-cut socks
0.5 Tech underwear
2.0 Ibex wool bra
2.8 Sunday Afternoons sun hat
0.3 Sunglasses clip-ons
1.9 Inov-8 low-cut gaiters
3.3 Knee brace
0.5 Foot cuffs
0.4 Wrist Road ID
8.1 Komperdell trekking pole (1) (also used to hold up Tarptent)
54.1 oz. (3.4 lb.) Subtotal Worn/Carried


BEAR COUNTRY
43.9 Garcia bear canister
2.4 Extra warm cap (in bear country I can’t wear the cap I use as a food cozy!)
46.3 oz. (2.9 lb.) Subtotal bear country


TOTALS

Not-bear-country:
12.8 lb. Base weight
+ 3.4 lb. Worn weight
= 16.2 lb.

Bear country:
15.7 lb. Base weight
+ 3.4 lb. Worn weight
= 19.1 lb.

Edited by mariposa on 10/24/2010 18:58:10 MDT.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: My turn to submit a gear list! on 10/24/2010 17:09:06 MDT Print View

For a solo for three days, you ought to be able to get a lighter bear canister.

If you want small, light, and cheap, I suggest the Bear Boxer.

--B.G.--

Steven Paris
(saparisor) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
My turn to submit a gear list! on 10/24/2010 17:54:08 MDT Print View

I think it's a good list. The things that jump out to me:

29.5oz Osprey Talon 30L: certainly not too heavy if the pack fits right for you, but it is a place where you could lose 10 - 15 oz IF you wanted to go to a frameless pack. That should be doable for 3 days even with the weight you have now.

47.9oz MH Phantom bag: again, you could find a lighter-though-equally-rated bag, but I'm not sure it would be worth the high price you might have to pay to get something different.

4.6oz Evernew 1.3L Pot: you aren't going to lose more than 1-2 oz but this pot seems a little big for solo trips.

5.6oz Kleen Kanteen: you mention the need for a hot water bottle, but a plastic nalgene-type bottle might work too at a lower weight (I have two 16-oz bottles at 3.70 oz and 4.20 oz, although I don't carry them anymore).

3.6oz Platypus 2.5L bladder with hose: could go to 2 1L plastic water bottles (like aquafina, etc). This would require a change from drinking with a hose.

2.1 Sea-to-Summit Ultrasil sack: do you need a daypack?

0.4 Wrist Road ID: I carry a shoe-ID when I run, but not sure you need it here, especially since you already carry your drivers license.

8.1 Komperdell Pole: you only carry 1 pole. If you only use it for setting up your tarptent, then maybe get a tent pole to use instead. If you use it for hiking too, there are a few lighter poles, like TiGoat's and Gossamer Gears (but once again, you'd have to decide if spending the money was worth the few ounces).

Dan Durston
(dandydan)

Locale: Cascadia
Gear list on 10/24/2010 18:10:16 MDT Print View

- Is your Phantom 15 really 47.9oz? Mountain Hardware lists the wmns Phantom 15 at 32oz.

- It's expensive, but you could replace your TT Squall with a cuben Zpacks Hexamid Duo with a sewn in floor. That would save 10oz.

- It seems like you could replace your 9.7oz fleece, 6.8oz down sweater and 3.2oz angora sweater with just one or two warmer pieces. You're carrying 20oz here for just upper body insulation which is a lot. It's more efficient to have 1 or 2 warmer pieces because most of the garments weight in the shells fabrics and zippers etc. Maybe just go with the one light insulation layer that you can wear while hiking and then another toasty layer like a WM Flight vest that you can wear to say toasty around camp. You should be able to accomplish the same amount of warmth for less weight by going to 2 pieces of insulation instead of 3.

- You're counting your 5oz of consumables (Esbit tabs) on your gearlist which makes your base weight higher than it really is.

- I dunno about the Kleen Kanteen. 5.6oz is a lot of weight for what you're getting. You'd be better off with a 1oz mug that is your mug and 'water scooper', a 0.5oz mirror for signaling and then spend the other 4oz on permanent insulation instead of a hot water bottle. 4oz more down would keep you warmer with less hassle than a water bottle at your feet IMO.

You've got a lot weight in insulation here, which I understand because you are a cold sleeper. The trick is to get the most bang for your weight, which is accomplished by carrying fewer but warmer pieces. Instead of your hot water bottle and all those insulating layers, maybe you should just invest in a Western Mountaineering Antelope bag. This is rated to 5F and weighs 37oz in a 5'6" model. If you got one of these you could ditch your 48oz 15F rated bag, your hot water bottle and probably one of your layers of insulation. It could save you 2 lbs.

Scott Truong
(elf773)

Locale: Vancouver, BC
Looks good. on 10/24/2010 18:14:40 MDT Print View

Your list looks pretty good to me.

Unfortunately clothes do weigh a ton. I'm not really one to talk because I love wearing my 260g merino sweater, and not sure which Montbell you have, but why not just bring something like the MB Alpine Lt Parka 12.7 oz(I think I saw one for $120 somewhere..campsaver). Then you can forget about the fleece, your lt. down jacket and even one your toque/cozy.

Not sure if that would be warm enough for you.

You could make a cozy out of windscreen sun reflector (reflectix and reflectix tape from Home Depot). It may not be much of a weight savings, but likely work better and you can use in bear country.

What about using a widemouth Nalgenee (50% off right now at Nalgene) for a water scooper, storage and hot water bottle. Think it's only 2.5 oz. I believe it can withstand very hot water. I just bought one and am thinking of putting a bandana over the mouth to filter/collect water. Not sure how that will work because of the flexible body.

Not sure what type of cooking you do, but maybe a smaller pot. Like a Snow peak 900 or smaller and freezer bag cooking. That way you have a water left over for tea while waiting for the FBC. I haven't tried it yet but I know the reflectix cozy works awesome with pots.

Not sure if you're already doing this, but food weighs a ton. You didn't mention food, but if you save weight here you could bring more clothes. I've found that my $45 Nesco 75 something or other dehydrator was indispensible.

A huge dehydrated beef stew with potatoes and carrot, instant rice or quinoa, weighs way far less than any snack bars, trail mix (weighs a ton), and even oatmeal. It especially makes a great breakfast and dinner. Ground beef is super easy to dehydrate for extra meat in stew, pasta etc. Hearty meal to keep you warm.

You've probably thought of all this though, your list is pretty tight as far as my knowledge extends.

Elizabeth Tracy
(mariposa) - M

Locale: Outside
frameless pack on 10/24/2010 18:27:00 MDT Print View

Great ideas so far.

I had no idea I could save so much $ by going to a frameless pack. I do know that I need a waist belt and padded shoulders for anything over ~10 pounds; I'm just a wuss that way. Shoulders hurt. In fact, I originally bought the Osprey to replace a (frameless) daypack for walking home with groceries. The belt/padded shoulders on the Osprey made all the difference in carry comfort.

So, are there frameless packs with padded shoulders and a real hipbelt?

- Elizabeth

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
phantom on 10/24/2010 18:27:47 MDT Print View

why's yr phantom so heavy?

the new 800 fill 15F ones are 32 oz

as you can see moving to a SUL pack, getting lighter bag with the same temp rating and going to a single tarp (no bivy) setup saves the most weight and are the most cost effective

other than that you dont get too much lighter without giving up some of your "comfort" misc items

you can download my spreadsheet and change the stuff

https://spreadsheets0.google.com/ccc?key=teHiCf4q_vfzsUMKEiSImXg&hl


Edited by bearbreeder on 10/24/2010 18:28:26 MDT.

Elizabeth Tracy
(mariposa) - M

Locale: Outside
Update on 10/24/2010 18:51:19 MDT Print View

Just re-weighed my Phantom, it's 33.2 oz. No idea how I was so far off the first time! (I have an excellent postal scale.)

So, between the Esbit fuel (which apparently doesn't count as base weight) and the Phantom adjustment, I've lost 19.7 oz. already! Keep going, gentlemen.

- Elizabeth

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
mind games on 10/24/2010 18:52:59 MDT Print View

u do realize yr not any lighter ...

it's all jedi mind tricks ;)

Scott Truong
(elf773)

Locale: Vancouver, BC
At that weight.. on 10/24/2010 19:22:47 MDT Print View

You could probably go frameless pack no problem. I found anything under twenty and you really don't even need the waist belt if you're hiking around 10 miles or less.

That is unless you have shoulder injuries.

The big mesh pockets in the front and side pockets in most UL packs are really really useful. I ended up with an MLD Burn, but I'd like to try an ULA Ohm and had thought of a Gossamer Gear Gorilla which you may like. The last two may be more suitable for your transition. With frame it isn't much of a weight savings, but it would be sans frame.

These 3 seem to be the most popular right now, so re-selling after the return date shouldn't be a problem.

Note the Burn doesn't have much of a hipbelt stock, but you can get an upgrade (then non-returnable) and the Gorilla has extra wide shoulder straps which may or may not work for you. I like tall and narrow, which these 3 are.

The Ohm would be a great size for any treks to South America.

Edited by elf773 on 10/24/2010 19:32:58 MDT.

Andy F
(AndyF) - M
Re: My turn to submit a gear list! on 10/24/2010 21:16:48 MDT Print View

I use a .7 oz Rubbermaid Twist & Seal plastic bowl (16 oz size) without a lid as my mug.

A 24 oz size Heineken keg pot is around 1.3 oz, but there's the issues of how it will work with the Esbit stove (I don't know), and the can liner BPA controversy.

I have the Gorilla pack (size M, L belt). It's about 21 oz if you remove the frame (very easy), and it comes with a Sitpad as the back padding (easily removable). The flexibility of easily adding a frame is nice, but I think I'd prefer a lighter frameless pack like the MLD Burn or even Newt.

I'd carry these on-person only because they'd be critical if separated from your pack:
compass
map
Bic
light
knife
add a pealess whistle
ID
wallet
car key

Steven Paris
(saparisor) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
My turn to submit a gear list! on 10/24/2010 21:29:53 MDT Print View

Maybe check out the Granite Gear Virga at 19oz (and could probably be modified). My first lightweight pack was the GG Vapor Trail (which I kept even though I mostly use a MLD Exodus) and it looks on the GG website that the shoulder straps have the same thick padding as that pack. The waist belt is just a webbing strap (I think) but at least you'd get the padded shoulder straps.

Campsaver has them with a 20% discount.

Elizabeth Tracy
(mariposa) - M

Locale: Outside
Follow-up on 10/24/2010 22:20:14 MDT Print View

This is all fantastic.

Bob: I see the smaller Bear Boxer would save me about a pound over the Garcia. Anyone here tried both? What is the real difference in capacity/# of days of food? And how about quality?

Steven: Are there really two bottles out there that could carry a total of 2.5 liters and that would weigh significantly less than my Platypus setup with tube at 3.6 ounces?

I probably don't need that daypack and the wrist ID, no.

Dan, I will try two layers instead of three. I have lots of variants to play with, as I have several midlayers at home and a warmer lightweight down jacket.

Scott, glad you mention FOOD. I am working on paring that down, too. I do have a dehydrator, want to expand from fruits & vegetables to other core items such as rice and quinoa. I never thought of trying to do ground beef. I think my food is much too heavy overall.

Eric, your chart is super useful. You got me looking at the Zpacks and the MLD sites. I've hiked in a Duomid quite a bit (it belongs to a friend), really like it. If I do buy any new shelter, though, I'd like to get one that does not require any trekking poles. My current Squall is ideal for me, in that it comes with a pole that I can use when I'm bikepacking, but when I'm backpacking I can leave that tent pole behind and use my trekking pole instead. I'd like to preserve that kind of setup. Come to think of it, the bikepacking part has me wondering if I should get a tarp - cuz I can't bring the bike in the tent with me!

Scott - Why would the Ohm be great for international travel?

What are the considerations for a woman getting a *frameless* pack? I have a very short torso, broader than average female shoulders, a back that gets very sore if I can't transfer most of the weight from shoulders to hip, and hip bones that portrude and can get irritated by an unpadded hipbelt. So, I've been skeptical about frameless packs and their skimpy support...Unless someone has a specific pack in mind that addresses these issues.

Andy - The Gorilla sounds really nice by all accounts. Why do you want a different pack? (Oh, I see...Gorilla is not the lightest.) And how do you carry that whole list of stuff on your person? I do see your point. But I don't hike in pants, and my shirts are pocketless and fragile, so I don't have multiple cargo pockets to stuff things into. Do you wear a lanyard around the neck to carry some of it?

- Elizabeth

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Follow-up on 10/24/2010 22:48:12 MDT Print View

"Bob: I see the smaller Bear Boxer would save me about a pound over the Garcia. Anyone here tried both? What is the real difference in capacity/# of days of food? And how about quality?"

Yes, I have an old standard Garcia, and I squeezed 8 person days of food into it one time, but it was a stretch.

I have a small BearVault (much lighter) and I squeezed 5 person days of food into it once.

I have the small Bear Boxer, and it is good for only about 3 or 4 person days. But, it is much smaller and lighter.

Take your pick.

--B.G.--

Andy F
(AndyF) - M
Re: Follow-up on 10/25/2010 00:28:35 MDT Print View

One issue you might run into with frameless packs is that most rely on a folded or rolled sleeping pad for their support and weight transfer to the hips. It seems like it might be quite a bit of "fiddling" to get the pad inflation just right for comfort.

Exactly, I'm looking at other packs to save even more weight. The ULA Ohm is similar to the Gorilla, but I'm not sure how easily the Ohm frame removes. The best approach might be to order 2-3 packs, try them out in the house loaded with your gear, and return the ones you don't want. Even I didn't follow my own advice though!

I didn't realize you didn't have any pockets. I'm not sure I could make it without any pockets! :) I always have pockets, even with shorts, so carrying all of that on-person is easy. I sometimes carry things on a lanyard, but I don't usually like to have something hanging around my neck. Runner's arm packs or something like that might be an option. Maybe you could just carry a whistle, photon, and tiny button compass on a lanyard? The compass could be epoxied to the whistle. There are also compasses on wristbands and ones which clip onto watchbands. Watch out for metals on the watch or lanyard affecting the compass reading.

Scott Truong
(elf773)

Locale: Vancouver, BC
RE: Food. on 10/25/2010 00:39:16 MDT Print View

Funny, I haven't really tried dehydrating fruits or even beef jerky. I've just done ground beef and a stew.

Ground beef is super super easy and re-hydrates well. Google mini-bull designs, youtube and look through his videos. Get the leanest meat you can find and paper towel off all the fat you can.

I was surprised how well the stew turned out though. It was delicious and hearty. 5-6 lbs of raw material became way less than a pound (guess).

Slow cooked it using a recipe from "cooking for dummies". Throw everything in a pot, get it boiling for a minute, reduce heat to simmer and leave for 8 hours.

Then you separate the vegetables (baby carrots, and potatoes) from the meat and sauce. Cut all into smaller even sized pieces (no need to go too small, just even size).

Dehydrate the meat separately (higher heat). The vegetables and sauce (on a fruit roll up tray) can be done together at a lower temp. Once dry, peel the sauce leather off, throw it in a blender and grind into powder. You can do spaghetti sauce the same way.

If I can do it anyone can.

I'm going to try putting meal portions in freezer bags and doing it that way. No dishes to wash, less food smells.

Dehydrated food was so much lighter, less bulky and satisfying than cliff bars, or trail mix (though I like nuts) etc. Never again. The exception being snickers bars or sweet valley salty and sweet bars (don't care the weight when they're that delicious).

Uncle Ben's or any instant rice is very light and a good filler.

What I do is bring instant rice, ground beef, stew, whole wheat rotini and dehydrated spaghetti sauce and mix and match depending on how hungry I am. The stew sauce can go in the spaghetti sauce, carrots from stew in spaghetti with meat sauce, rice with ground beef or in stew (delicious) etc.

Not gourmet by any means, it might end up all tasting the same, and I always invariably crave fried chicken and biscuits, or pepperoni pizza, but it does the trick.

I'm just starting out so there's lots I have to figure out with food (like cooking fish). Though I love comfort food. Sarah and Laurie on the food forum are really nice, they'd answer better any ideas/questions you had.

About the Ohm, I just figure it's a good size.

I just need something a bit bigger than my Burn for an mixed activities overseas trip where I'll be going through towns etc, hostels w/some trekking thrown in. Like I said, those mesh pockets can hold a lot and are really handy. Also having a narrow, thin profile pack helps when navigating crowded streets, buses etc.

I have pockets but hate using them, I just throw everything I need for the day into the back mesh pocket. Hip belt pockets would be a bonus.

Keep in mind though, IMHO, unless it's a substantial weight savings (Zpacks Blast for example), and provided your current pack is comfortable, I'd just keep it. 29 oz isn't that bad. I've found frameless packs comfortable and no problem to use, but you may be different. Tress for the forest kinda thing.

Edited by elf773 on 10/25/2010 01:23:35 MDT.

Bradford Rogers
(Mocs123) - MLife

Locale: Southeast Tennessee
Re: My turn to submit a gear list! on 10/25/2010 09:38:58 MDT Print View

Elizabeth,

Have you tried a different sleeping pad? I wonder if your pad might be part of the reason you are such a cold sleeper. You could try supplementing it with a CCF pad like a GG Thinlight or Thermarest Ridgerest. If that helps keep you warmer, you could eventually go to a Down Air Mat such as a Kooka-Bay that would be lighter and more compact than the combo.

Andy F
(AndyF) - M
Down mat on 10/25/2010 10:20:10 MDT Print View

Good suggestion, Bradford. Down mats seem to have their own heat source compared to other pads! I have the Exped full-length for winter. It's warm, comfy, and durable, but also heavy at 2 lbs. The Kooka-Bays are lighter.

Elizabeth Tracy
(mariposa) - M

Locale: Outside
Sleeping pad on 10/25/2010 11:32:07 MDT Print View

The sleeping pad I have (POE Ether Thermo) already represents an upgrade in both comfort and warmth, from what I had earlier. Earlier, in an effort to go ultralite I used a Zrest, and then just the GG torso pad by itself! And I slept cold at night.

The POE pad is both warmer and more comfy. One time when I had to leave it home because it developed a puncture, I went back to the Zlite and my entire underside felt noticeably colder.

Sometimes I supplement the POE with a 1/8 thinlight pad.

With or without the thinlight pad, the POE has definitely made me warmer, and depending on the night temp, sometimes I can go now without the hot water bottle or the full set of clothing.

- Elizabeth

Elizabeth Tracy
(mariposa) - M

Locale: Outside
frameless pack on 10/25/2010 11:37:31 MDT Print View

Yes, my current 29 oz. for a pack is a reasonably good weight, and for that I also get the nice comfort and the of an Osprey pack.

However, I'd consider trying out one of the *much* lighter, frameless packs as a summer weekender option. So not something like the Gorilla (which is only a few ounces lighter than my pack), but even more minimalist. Something with 2000 c.i./30 liters is fine; that's the size of my Osprey anyway. I'd buy it off the gear trade here, rather than new. If I hate it I just re-sell it!

- Elizabeth