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Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: A very flat place (Grrrrrrrr)
Winter Down Parka recommendations on 10/19/2010 13:27:37 MDT Print View

Hi folks,

I am looking for a Down Parka which would keep me warm in the event of an emergency bivy with suitable down trousers, booties and mitts down to about -25F.

I am currently looking at the PHD Hispar, Feathered Friends Volant or IceFall and a combination of a Crux Magma and Nunatak Skaha Plus, any comments on these or other items would be great.

I have access to both US and European sellers.

Many thanks,

Stephen

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F - M
bag? on 10/19/2010 13:30:58 MDT Print View

will you have a sleeping bag? ... or snow cave?

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: A very flat place (Grrrrrrrr)
Winter Down Parka recommendations on 10/19/2010 13:42:34 MDT Print View

Hi,

It would be for emergency use without a bag, I would have a Bivi bag and a Mat, a snow hole would be nice but it may not be an option.

Cheers,
Stephen

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F - M
-25 F on 10/19/2010 13:56:37 MDT Print View

short of a down suit i dont think to much will keep you warm at those levels at night without a bag or snow cave or fire

assuming youll use the jacket as a belay jacket ... i just get the thickest one with the most high quality fill you can reasonable carry

and bring some VBL clothing

try the EB First Ascent Peak Jacket as a MINIMUM ... feathered friends expedition parkas if you can afford them

you wont be warm but you might live

Edited by bearbreeder on 10/19/2010 13:57:42 MDT.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: A very flat place (Grrrrrrrr)
Thanks on 10/19/2010 14:01:56 MDT Print View

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the reply, from what your saying I should be packing a sleeping bag for those temperatures or have about 30oz of down clothing. That makes sense to me.

Cheers,
Stephen

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F - M
yup on 10/19/2010 14:11:38 MDT Print View

yup ...most of the jackets you have are lighter to midweights ...

-25F (-30C) temps are no laughing matter without a bag ...

i would go with a thick belay jacket with a minimum of 12+ oz of 800 fill down ... and then you MIGHT be able to get away with a light bag in combination ...

if yr travelling with others a 2 person bivy or bothy is always warmer ... also if yr carrying a stove to melt water, a nalgene bottle filled with hot water can keep you a bit warmer for hours ... blizzard also makes a survival bag which is around 40F which is a bivy/bag for emergencies, in combo with THICK down jacket it MIGHT just give you a fighting chance .. i always have one of these in winter

for some good resources go to

http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/avoiding_the_big_sleep

Edited by bearbreeder on 10/19/2010 14:18:48 MDT.

Eric Lundquist
(cobberman) - F - M

Locale: Dry side of the Eastern Sierra's
Re: Winter Down Parka recommendations on 10/19/2010 14:13:51 MDT Print View

Keep in mind that when you are sitting or laying down you're compressing the down insulation and reducing it's ability to keep you warm. I would strongly recommend some sort of insulating pad as well.

Care to elaborate what you're planning for a -25* adventure? Overnight exposed on a bucket ice fishing perhaps?

Brad Groves
(4quietwoods) - MLife

Locale: Michigan
Re: Winter Down Parka recommendations on 10/19/2010 14:57:06 MDT Print View

A walking sleeping bag is the key. Lotsa down. Icefall w/15 oz of down/34 oz total is minimum IMO. Rock & Ice w/21oz down better. Nunatak also makes the Torre, 15oz/30 oz total... could have overfilled. The hooded down vest I made w/~12oz of 850+FP down is really, really warm... but I wouldn't rely on just that (up top) to keep me warm through a 20 below night.

What are you wearing under the big poofy piece?

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
Winter Down Parka recommendations on 10/19/2010 16:12:00 MDT Print View

How about pairing a Marmot Greenland parka with WM Flight Pants, in conjunction with your base- and mid-layers? Slip into your bivy sack, on a R5-6 pad, and I'd think you might make it through a -25*F night. Keep your bottle of olive oil in the bag with you, to keep the calories going. A couple of 10-hour hand warmers should be along for the ride, just in case. I assume that you won't have a camp fire to help you keep warm, nor a snow cave? At any rate, you'll need to be well protected from any wind. Where and when do you envision such a situation? Just curious...

Robert Carver
(Rcarver) - MLife

Locale: Southeast TN
-25 F on 10/19/2010 18:28:40 MDT Print View

Is not the time to find out the gear you have with you is not going to get you through.
Maybe MH absolute zero parka and pant or the FF rock & ice parka paired with the FF -40 pants would keep you alive.

Don Selesky
(backslacker) - M
Re: Winter Down Parka recommendations on 10/19/2010 20:35:09 MDT Print View

Years ago I was out one winter at -13F, standing around chatting with people camping nearby while being perfectly warm and comfy. I used a large Marmot baffled down parka, plus the appropriate down pants and insulated boots.

Haven't had a chance to test drive my Nunatak Torre parka, but it seems like it should perform almost as well as the old Marmot.

Feathered Friends also has several expedition weight parkas, one particularly heavy (and expensive) one that would keep you warm in very cold conditions.

As others have mentioned, pair this with matching down pants, and don't forget *really* warm mitts - I'd suggest taking a look at the warmest that RBH Designs has, they have a built-in VBL layer inside, and it makes a huge difference.

Edited by backslacker on 10/20/2010 13:40:22 MDT.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Winter Down Parka recommendations on 10/19/2010 20:40:49 MDT Print View

"Feathered Friends also has several expedition weight parkas, one particularly heavy (and expensive) one that would keep you warm in very cold conditions."

I have one. On a snowcamping trip one time, I tried to test it by wearing a T-shirt under it, and I laid on the snow for a while to see if I could feel the cold of the snow. No way. I was hot in it at freezing temperature.

It was like they took a super winter down bag and recut it to be in a parka shape.

--B.G.--

Jack H.
(Found) - F

Locale: Sacramento, CA
Re: Re: Re: Winter Down Parka recommendations on 10/19/2010 20:47:43 MDT Print View

I'll echo not being warm at that temp with any sort of parka. Mine has 16oz of down..I'd recommend more.

Vince Contreras
(pillowthread) - F

Locale: like, in my head???
Marmot options... on 10/19/2010 23:35:52 MDT Print View

I've used a Marmot Iceland parka, which is their Greenland jacket with a waterproof/breathable membrane, in sedentary applications down to -10F wearing a t-shirt and ratty old R2 fleece underneath, and was perfectly comfortable. I'd imagine that with a proper baselayer (Cap 4 or equivalent) and a thicker fleece underneath, -25F would be tolerable. Both the Greenland and Iceland have an internal pocket specifically dedicated to a nalgene or the like.

And I'll second jack's notion that a pound of down should be the starting point...

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: A very flat place (Grrrrrrrr)
Thanks on 10/20/2010 01:48:51 MDT Print View

Hi folks,

Thanks for all the great information.

It would be for trip to Norway this winter I would be looking for the jacket for.

I have used a Blizzard bag once and they are very good.

Cheers,
Stephen

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: A very flat place (Grrrrrrrr)
Hi on 10/20/2010 01:55:22 MDT Print View

Hi folks,

I would have in my bag a narrowed Thmeramarest Z lite which I could double over and use as short mat, giving a good enough R value.

The FF Ice fall jacket combined with mitts, booties and down trousers would have about 28oz of down in total.

Thanks,

Stephen

Brad Groves
(4quietwoods) - MLife

Locale: Michigan
Re: Hi on 10/21/2010 10:33:38 MDT Print View

I would want more down in the jacket for those temps, Ice Fall definitely the minimum... If you're making that kind of investment anyway, a bit more for a warmer jacket would probably be a good decision. Temps that cold aren't the time for "can I get away with it?"

I've also used the Blizzard bag/equivalent. Works great! (Though repacks huge.) I wouldn't plan on using it with all your down gear on inside, though, since the Blizzard is a VBL and will trap any and all moisture in your down...

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: A very flat place (Grrrrrrrr)
Hi on 10/21/2010 11:42:10 MDT Print View

I slept in a Blizzard bag once and it was not too bad at all, I always have one in my pack if I don't have a sleeping bag;
One of the reasons I fancy the event shell on the FF and Crux (I have a Crux Plasma for 3 seasons use) as it would keep the down drier if used in a Blizzard bag.

I am two minds to buy a big jacket with 15oz of down in it or one with about 12oz and lightweight inner jacket or pullover with 3-4oz. There advantages and disadvantages to both.

Cheers,
Stephen