Hey everyone :)
From what I've read about the Neo-Air, there have been a lot of people unhappy with the temperatures that they can take it down to.
My wife and I both have one and on two occasions have camped with them in 32-39f temperatures on damp ground. We were in a tent both times and use WM Ultralite bags but were still cold, even in wool socks, beanies and thermals.
We absolutely love the comfort of the pads but they just aren't suitable for cool temperatures for us.
It appears to me that we have two options?
Get a dedicated winter pad like a prolite+ (680g) with an r-value of 3.8 or get something like a z-lite (410g) to stick underneath when it will be cold making an r-value of 4.7 (both neo-air and z-lite add up to 820g.

Any opinions?

If you are just looking to add insulation, this gossamer gear pad seems to be a favorite:

http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/thinlight.html

They are lighter and less bulky than a z-rest.

3.8 seems borderline to me. For winter pads I'd go with the following in roughly the same order:

Pacific Outdoor Gear Hyper Elite
Kookabay custom down air mat
Exped down air mat

I have the first. I plan to get the latter. The last one is too heavy, although I'd consider the large & wide version if I wasn't carry it on my back.

I've been happy with my Kookabay pad for swing season, and they are custom made so you can get it however warm you want. Here is my current late fall / early spring setup:
Suluk46 1/4" 70"x20" 77g R0.9
Kookabay 2.5" 46"x20" 296g R4 (synthetic)
GG Nightlite .5" 10"x20" 45g R3.5

So I have R4.9 for my torso and R4.4 for my feet. This setup works well with a total weight 14.7oz.

Edited by bsenez on 10/17/2010 20:23:03 MDT.

Just get an el cheapo foam pad with an R value of ~2 and use it with the neo air ... Shouldnt cost u a quid

theres no need to go off and spend lotta more moola

course crocodile dundee would just use dingos to keep him warm ... Lol

Dingos are a bit warmer than dogs.
So for a Three Dog Night you only really need 2.5 dingos.
Franco

I considered dingoes but since I'm thing to keep my pack light, I ruled them out. I've had a quick look at the GG before, I'll check out the Kookabay ones :-)

Would you settle for two dingoes and a 'roo?

--B.G.--

you obviously havent considered that dingoes are self powered

not only will they carry yr gear, and warm you up ... they are also a great food source ... as your pack weight decreases on yr trip you can eat a dingo and reduce yr carried food ... they can also hunt rooos for ya

if amundsen did that on the way to the south pole ... im sure BPLers can too

lol

I'll definitely look into the GG thinlite. Is there any info on the R-values for the different thicknesses anywhere?

Franco: This is a bit off topic but we spend a lot of time in the Grampians, mostly climbing on weekend trips, what do you do for water in Summer and Autumn when you are backpacking? It is never readily available at camps sites in these seasons.

if you already have a Neo- you might want to peruse this thread

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=37439&skip_to_post=318295#318295

what I came away with is that a Neo combined w/ a Nightlight (or equivalent) should be comfortable w/ winter temps, very comfortable and if you already own a Neo-very cost effective

also that it's more effective thermally to use the closed cell pad on top of the Neo

Use a warmer pad to start. It's AMAZING how much difference a good pad can make in your warmth. Remember, the pad can be worth 35% of your insulation.

If you like the P. Plus, go for the women's model... has an R 4.5 instead of 3.8; the Trail Pro women's is R 5.1, but adds ~7 ounces.

I'd recommend going for a down mat. Makes a big difference in warmth, comfort, packability. R 5.9 to R 8.

+1 for a warmer pad. As Brad alluded to, don't underestimate the warmth of a good pad. Also, carrying a few extra ounces for a warmer pad is well worth a good night's sleep.

You're going to want a pad with at least an R5 rating to stay "thermal neutral." Or at least that's what the math tells us. The warmer the better IMOH.

Edited by T.L. on 10/19/2010 12:49:56 MDT.

So what are my options for a down mat?
Thanks all for your help :) I'm slowly learning :)

I can only comment on KookaBay. You can have a completely custom mat. Mine is 60x20x2.5 with around 6 ounces of down. Weights in at 16 oz in stuff sack. I'll be trying it in temps hovering in the teens this winter, but I've already had it down to 24F and it was toasty.

Warmlite

Exped

Kookabay

I think I'll go with a couple of Exped pads if I head down that path, it's just coming into warm weather here so I can wait before I decide. The Kookabay website, I hate to say, has next to no info at all, and none on the down mats. The Warmlite pads don't seem to have a lot of information on their site either.

Edited by benen on 10/20/2010 02:50:19 MDT.

Bender is the guy that is Kookabay and he's a member here. It is true that his website is not useful for his custom work, but he is easily contacted via email/pm. I surely wouldn't let a little thing like his website make me spend more money on a heavier down air mat. That's why I put my preference for the Exped after Kookabay.

I've actually had no luck getting a response from Bender either via the BPL PM's or by emailing him/using the contact form on his website.

Maybe he's just really busy or not looking for much work at the moment?

I also sent him a message several weeks ago, and have not heard back from him. Perhaps he is on a long hike?