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Ike Mouser
(isaac.mouser) - F
siltstopper on 10/13/2010 11:35:29 MDT Print View

Sorry, there was a thread on Hammockforums that had the details, i cannot remember. Do some googling, i will later. peace

BTW how long does the siltstopper thingy last before you have to replace it, i really like it. at less than 2 oz, its appealing.

Pieter Kaufman
(Pieter) - F
Re: Frontier Pro on 10/13/2010 12:08:11 MDT Print View

Gary and Heath, thanks for the clarification. I guess I could have read the fine print!

However, this is interesting to me, given that I've been out with a lot of people who use and seem to love filters like the Katydyn, and I wasn't aware that they don't stop absolutely everything. I wonder if all the users are aware of this as well.

For me personally, if I have to carry tablets and employ them with the filter as well, that's a real knock against the system. Not because of weight per se, but because of a lack of simplicity. More and more, I'm finding that the fussier the system, the less likely I am to want to use it. Aquamira drops work fine, but I'm tired of playing junior chemist on the trail. Tablets take too long. I may still experiment with a filter system, but not if I have to double it up with something else.

I did just buy a Steripen, and I was kind of sold on the idea on a trip in July when another companion had one. But even it has its shortfalls.

Thankfully for me, most of the year I don't have to worry about treating my water. It's just those relatively few trips (i.e., up Whitney trail in summer with no snow) when I won't drink untreated water that it becomes a pain.

Ike Mouser
(isaac.mouser) - F
ease on 10/13/2010 12:17:00 MDT Print View

I feel like the sawyer is the best bet, becasue from the reviews it seems to have a long life, its backflushable as well, and takes care of everything except viruses. The purifier version also takes out viruses. So if you had this + a charcoal element, you would never need chemicals, it would be as easy as scoop and filter. I would even install some sort of prefilter, to increase the longevity of the sawyer-which is already one of the longest among all water filters for backpacking. And im just guessing here, but i bet the whole setup could be under 7-8oz if you did it right.

Is the MSR siltstopper charcoal based or not? It appears white the inside.

Edited by isaac.mouser on 10/13/2010 12:18:29 MDT.

Heath Pitts
(heathpitts)

Locale: Nashville
Carbon on 10/13/2010 12:33:39 MDT Print View

The siltstopper isn't carbon based. I just added the carbon to the void in the middle of the filter.

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
Carbon on 10/13/2010 12:37:52 MDT Print View

Heath, what type of carbon did you use--powdered or granulated? Where did you buy a small quantity? I have a siltstopper on the way, and I'd like to try your technique with my Sawyer setup.

Heath Pitts
(heathpitts)

Locale: Nashville
Aquarium Charcoal on 10/13/2010 12:42:54 MDT Print View

I bought some granulated aquarium charcoal from a local aquarium store. I didn't know about the powdered type.

Brad Groves
(4quietwoods) - MLife

Locale: Michigan
Gravity, or not on 10/13/2010 19:44:30 MDT Print View

The Sawyer filter is super easy to use, and the recent update w/incorporated quick connects is nice. I don't bother with a water bag. I just spliced the Sawyer into a 3L Platy hoser bladder; I did add a silt stopper in line, added a hair under an ounce. Point is, I have a 3-ounce water filter that requires nothing special and that takes out everything I'm concerned about CONUS.

I use the hydration bladder as my water source. Go to the stream/lake/whatever, submerge and fill, screw on the hydration hose w/inline filter. Toss the bladder in my pack, drink filtered water as I go. If a buddy needs some filtered water, just hang the thing from a tree limb and gravity feed. No fuss.

Phil O'Connor
(PhilOConnor) - F

Locale: Oh ya know
NFCWS on 10/13/2010 21:41:17 MDT Print View

Brad, you think you can post some pictures and maybe some quick info on the pieces needed to achieve the no fuss clean water system NFCWS

Brad Groves
(4quietwoods) - MLife

Locale: Michigan
Re: NFCWS on 10/15/2010 09:01:27 MDT Print View

Hey Phil, I don't have pics of the system. Really straight-forward, though. A Platypus 3.0L Hoser; cut the hose ~midway, splice in the Sweetwater SiltStopper; cut the hose a couple inches further toward bite valve and splice in Sawyer SP-122 (comes w/quick connect fittings). That's all.

The Sawyer product pics show the filter spliced into a hydration pack; it's literally as simple as cutting the tubing and shoving the tubing on the fittings...

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Re: NFCWS on 10/15/2010 14:35:08 MDT Print View

Brad,

Do you think a carbon accessory (Katy) added to this setup would decrease the pressure so that it would be really slow?

I have been thinking about this setup but with the carbon element. Whaddya think??

Brad Groves
(4quietwoods) - MLife

Locale: Michigan
Re: Re: Re: NFCWS on 10/15/2010 16:00:27 MDT Print View

Jeff, I don't think it would slow the flow significantly. It would add (assuming the Katadyn bottle adaptor w/carbon) a little over 2 more ounces to the filter system, which I'm guessin you know. I don't remember there being a nub on the bottom of the carbon to push on a bite valve, but if you were just gravity filtering that'd be fine.

If you're gravity feeding that way, I'd assume the additional weight of another bladder to drain into, as well... not a big deal, really, but adds another couple ounces to the system. For most backcountry travel I personally haven't found the need for a carbon treatment... way back, I'm not concerned about industrial heavy metals or flushed Rx meds in the water... and if the water tastes a little funky, it's a pretty sure bet it won't taste as bad as iodine treatments would, so I take it in and wonder about it as part of the "local culture."

Hang it high as you can for gravity feed. I can almost always find something at upper arms reach, but you could also toss a line over a low limb. W/longer hose, filter more toward bottom, get more head/pressure that way.For drinking as you go, by keeping the bladder on top of my pack (ie under lid/top strap) I've found that it flows well and is easier to load/unload the pack.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Re: Re: Re: NFCWS on 10/15/2010 16:56:34 MDT Print View

Thanks for the info...

Yeah I guess it'd be kinda pointless. The water here is pretty good anyway...

The carbon stoptop does have a nipple on the bottom but I guess its not really needed so close to the source. (water source)

Thanks

its easy to add too many things to a project to make it perfect- usually makes it 'too perfect' and it fails

Matt DeWitt
(tritan) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: Gravity, or not on 10/16/2010 22:04:20 MDT Print View

would love to see pics of this system

Brad Groves
(4quietwoods) - MLife

Locale: Michigan
Re: Re: Gravity, or not on 10/19/2010 11:37:22 MDT Print View

I'm not sure how much this could help, it's a hose w/an inline filter, but...

filter

Mine usually gets tossed sideways under the top lid or strap, hangs from the loop on bladder for gravity. The placement of the filter is not great for using a drop-in hydation sleeve; the filter's a little too close to the bite valve to get the bite valve out far enough.

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
Charcoal size? on 10/21/2010 16:42:40 MDT Print View

Heath, have you tested your aquarium charcoal setup yet? I followed your idea, and so far I'm not sure that I'm impressed with my results. Here is my own test:

Since my main interest is to remove the chlorine taste of AM or tablets, I first filled a 2-L Platy with tap water, then added the pills, waited 15-20 minutes to let them fully dissolve, and then I ran the water through the various filter modes:

(1) 0.1 micron Sawyer filter with 2' of tubing from the Platy, no Siltstopper/charcoal. I collected 8 oz. of this water in a glass.

(2) Sawyer with same hoses, but with the Siltstopper (filled with charcoal, and a custom steel screen to keep the pellets from escaping through the tube hole) placed just above the Sawyer .1 micron filter. I ran maybe 8 oz. of water through the system before collecting my 8 oz. sample, hoping to purge the filter and Siltstopper from step (1).

(3) As a control, I then attached a Frontier Pro filter, ran maybe 8 oz through to fully wet the day filter. Then I collected another 8 oz. sample.

(4) I dissolved one Micropur tablet into a 1-L Platy, to act as another control, for unfiltered water.

My findings:

The treated water that was not run through a filter came out as you would expect--a mild taste of chlorine and the usual white floaties from the pill.

The water the Frontier Pro provided tasted just like my tap water (I'm on a well, with no chemicals involved--very pure artesian water). The FP seemed to remove all traces of the chloride from the pills.

I really couldn't taste a difference between the 2 Sawyer samples. Both had a slight taste of chlorine. I'm thinking that the granule size of the aquarium charcoal is too large to have much of an effect (they're little cylinders, 2.0 mm x 4.0 mm). I think I'll put some charcoal pellets into my coffee grinder and see if I can reduce the size. I'll toss any powder, as I think that might clog up the system somewhat. Then I'll repeat my test, and see if smaller bits of charcoal make a difference.

I'm desperate to learn from others how their results turned out. I'm also tempted to break open a spare FP to learn what size charcoal pieces they are using. Seems like I'm totally missing something here.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: Gravity, or not on 10/21/2010 16:46:09 MDT Print View

"Seems like I'm totally missing something here."

Do you understand the difference between charcoal and activated charcoal?

--B.G.--

Heath Pitts
(heathpitts)

Locale: Nashville
Test on 10/21/2010 16:48:34 MDT Print View

I haven't been able to test it in the field yet. But that is a good point on the granule size. Please update us if you find something that would work better. Maybe purchasing the charcoal refills for the katadyn carbon adapter would be the better setup

Brad Groves
(4quietwoods) - MLife

Locale: Michigan
Re: Charcoal size? on 10/21/2010 17:20:57 MDT Print View

Gary, carbon filter elements are "solid," not pieces/powder. A tube of carbon, if you will...

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
Activated charcoal on 10/21/2010 17:27:04 MDT Print View

I think I do, Bob, pretty much. Do you suppose that the aquarium charcoal I bought isn't actually the activated type? That doesn't make sense. But it's looking like water filters tend to use a granule on the order of 14-30 sieve size. The stuff I bought is 8-10 (larger). I'll try the coffee grinder next.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Re: Re: Gravity, or not on 10/21/2010 17:31:58 MDT Print View

Hey, Brad ...with gravity you gettin bout 1L/ min?

I think your setup is money. (having never used it) If it'll get at least a liter a min its probably bout as good as can get. (I guess you could always go cuben bag)