There are various ways to cross streams/shallow river beds in winter:

1.) Take everything off, get to the other side, put everything back on.

2.) Take everything except breatheable trail runners off, cross in them and put on goretex socks and wool sock at the other side, etc.

I always liked the idea of waders, growing up i remember those huge boots that go up past the knee, and thought iwas cool that they allowed me to walk through basically everything unhindered.

Doing any of the above methods to cross streams seems to time consuming. If one had a pair of UL waders that one could simply slip on, cross and remove, hiking would be much simpler in winter.

So i ask you to help me design a pair of ul waders. I am in the process of selling off excess gear and using the funds from that to order cuben. The waders will be cuben + some other unkown material at this time. Im not sure whether most waders have a large neoprene booty you slip your shoe/foot into or what they have as i've never used any like are sold online.

I would like to make an UL version of this:
scroll down to light weight waders:
http://wiggys.com/category.cfm?category=3

What should i use for the bottom material that will contact the rocky/possibly sharp areas of a river/creek bed?

What should i use to join the two materials? Sewing + seam sealing + glue?

help!

Here is a drawing of what im after:

Edited by isaac.mouser on 10/06/2010 08:52:54 MDT.

You might check this thread out for ideas. I could easily imagine a few yards of CT0.3K.08 getting it on with this and producing your waders!

Edited by ChemE on 10/06/2010 08:35:44 MDT.

i'd use a heavier cuben than the .3k but a cuben sock that went inside your shoe and extended up to you thigh would be the easiest and lightest option. Seam tape everything and wear a liner sock inside it with your hiking socks outside to protect it from your shoes then just wear your trail shoes. I guess if it is winter you might not want wet shoes but that's as far as i have thought.

-Tim

Do you think a sandal or a neoprene shoe cover similar to regular waders would work better?

I like your ideas. The way im leaning now, would be to have it slip over everything, not even having to take ones shoes/boots off. Or would this cause too much abrasion overtime and stress on the joined portions of the cuben. Maybe its best to make it so it can be just slipped over the socks and you only have to take your shoes off. Im confused about what the material should be that goes over the shoe though, if that method is adopted.

What kind of tape should i use?

So many questions..

Edited by isaac.mouser on 10/06/2010 10:48:25 MDT.

IMHO you should use a very lightweight felt so that you have traction on the slippery rocks and such. Your idea sounds great. Looking forward to some pics

Would this felt not be prone to tearing with a running shoe inside it? Maybe have the cuben be more like a plastic bottle with the top off and attach the bottom to the bottom of the bottle. (poor visual demonstration) Obviously it will be wavy fabric not a bottle, but you get the point.

genie diaper bags. perfect fit for the legs and pretty darn strong. odor proof also.

these are like your drawing and a bit more durable...

http://lathropandsons.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/25/products_id/49

Edited by rbeard on 10/06/2010 12:16:47 MDT.

Yes the felt could handle it- Provided you get the felt that is actually used for the bottom of fishing shoes. Apparently it gives good traction on wet rocks. They are heavy shoes, but many have replaceable felt soles. Buying some of these replacement soles and using them for the bottom of the waders might work.

http://www.hodgman.com/Felt-Sole-Replacement-Kit-P1999C56.aspx

Edited by WoodenWizard on 10/06/2010 12:45:02 MDT.

Thanks for the link! I now know they have a rubberized sole from the link you sent. Thats exactly what i am trying to make.

We actually have a genie diaper holder thingy for our baby. Will check into it.

Edited by isaac.mouser on 10/06/2010 13:24:10 MDT.

Ike,

Here is another link to replacement felt soles (cheaper)
http://www.fishusa.com/Frogg-Toggs-Felt-Sole-Replacement-Kit_p.html?source=googleps

I think if you made them big enough to fit over your shoes and put a thin plastic plate inside for stiffening the foot bed (outside to inside: Felt-oversided cuben/diaper genie bag sock-foot bed) you would still have a low weight wader without the risk of your shoe, or the stream bed puncturing the sock material. You might need another tie around the ankle to keep the oversized sock in place (similar to NEOs overboots).

Neat idea you have going.

Edited by BER on 10/06/2010 13:40:50 MDT.

I would keep it simple and just make a really tall pair of cuben socks (cinch top just above the knee?) and combine that with either your shoes (worn over top) or some other tough dedicated water crossing socks (neoprene?) to protect the cuben and give you grip.

So the process at a water crossing would be like this:
1) Slip your shoes off, keep your hiking socks on.
2) Slip on waterproof cuben knee high socks
3a) Slip on shoes or large, tough socks over the cuben socks to protect the cuben and to give you grip

Doing it this way avoids all the problems associated with attaching the cuben to some other material that gets used for the shoes. This would be simpler and likely as light or lighter but the downside would be a little more hassle as you do need to remove your shoes.

If you really want to keep your shoes on, you could make huge cuben socks and find some huge neoprene booties to fit over that. Essentially I'm advocating a 2 piece wader (cuben sock + tougher foot piece) so you can avoid having to attach the two together.

On the flip side, is it worth the weight and hassle to do this, rather than just cross barefoot?

dont make cuben waders

make cuben stockings that can double as VBL if needed ...

Be advised that there's a problem with felt harboring invasive aquatic species like the New Zealand snail:
Science of Felt
Trout Unlimited: What Anglers Can Do

I also thought felt would get really dirty and with a rubber bottom i could just wipe it down with my shamwow and move on down the trail.

The problem i see with the shoe off-cuben wader on-shoe on method is the shoe is ultimately wet after your done, which is one of the things im avoiding. A solution is some kind of slipper like a croc or a protective sock to protect the cuben from the creek/river bed bottm. The downsides to this method are: more weight (crocs/protective sock) and taking the shoes off and putting them back on.

Like the idea of a cuben VBL, another point for the take shoes off version. Theres no way i would put a dirty wader in my sleeping bag, but a cleaner one(wipe down with shamwow when finished), perhaps.

Here in Hawaii most hiking involves slippery streams and slippery rocks and mud. There is no substitute for the performance of felt for safe secure crossings. Mostly we just hike in felt soled Japanese tabis (like a sock with rubber toe guard and felt sole)

Cuban waders that slip over shoes and all will have lots of drag and make for sloppy footwork

Never heard of them but this site provides interesting information:

http://www.kauaiexplorer.com/guides/hiking/footwear.php

They are great. Split toe. We have spiked ones for steep muddy terrain (mointain and ridge etc) and felt for moderate/ stream/ coast

I now have a roll of olive drab cuben ready to be hysol"d. So now i can get to work on my multi purpse waders, shell mitts, vbl foot warmers. I was thinkig of making semi foot shaped waders that would clip onto the belt loops on my pants via nacrabiners. As far as the hysol goes. i got a mixing gun and 2 50 ml packages of glue. Do i just cut the fabric, glue, and put a weight on top of it? Should i glue a section at a time or all at once?

If you have any suggestions about how to design them, please let me know. I need all the help i can get.

As far as applying the glue, should i just paint it on? How wide of a line? How thick?

Edited by isaac.mouser on 11/10/2010 12:17:04 MST.

Just ran into this thread, so excuse the lateness of my opinions.

I have used the following in the past, all worn inside my shoes and all kept in place with rubber bands I keep on my trekking poles:

1. Grocery-store veggie bags (light and cheap but they don't last more than a weekend).

2. Reynolds oven bags (large). They work well and are tough as nails.

3. Sunday newspaper bags. They are long and skinny for deeper crossings. They're cheap and last a bit longer than veggie bags, but I have to subscribe to our really terrible local newspaper to get them. ;-)

4. Now that I wear Vibram Five Fingers, I just wade right in!

Stargazer