Which tents under 3kg will take 100km/h winds from any direction?
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Godela Unseld
(unseldgoda) - F
Re: Which tents under 3kg will take 100km/h winds from any direction? Soulo: strong cons on 09/05/2011 06:05:55 MDT Print View

Soulo: Used this tent for 1 month, north of the pole circle, high in the mountains. Used it with stronger poles than those from Hilleberg. (See: www.fliegfix.com)

Strong cons:

Condensation machine. Used the old Hilleberg Nallo, solo, for many years. Never had problems with condensation in spring/summer/autumn. In the Soulo, despite every available trick, in rainy weather / cold nights, my sleeping bag was wet. Cause: Only 1 very tiny vent. Flap covering the top touches the flysheet.

Noisiest tent I ever used. Flap, covering the top, gives a verrrry loud, penetrating, vibrating sound like "GRRRRRHHRRRMMMM" even in light wind. Fabric of flysheet looses tension very fast when getting wet. In practice it starts to wrinkle even with a light mist.With a tunnel, one can tauten the whole tent. You cannot do this with the Soulo. Trying to do it, you end up with 2 taut "strings" in the respective segment of the flysheet, the other parts still flapping happily beneath + above, going "BOOOM", "BANG" with every gust. This happens no matter which part of the tent faces the wind.

Silly design (apart from the non-existing ventilation and the noise). Poles only crossing at the very top. This makes for big loose segments of the flysheet, even with 3 poles.

Pros: Had some stiff wind, tent poles did not budge. Watertight even in heavy rain + storm. And: Beautyfully easy and fast to set up. A pity that the other design features are such a miss.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Crux and Lightwave Tents on 09/05/2011 07:26:12 MDT Print View

Hi folks,

I have owned both a Crux X2 Storm and its baby brother the Lightwave G1 Ultra, they are fantastic tents once pitched.

Cheers,

Stephen

peter vacco
(fluff@inreach.com) - M

Locale: no. california
roger is correct. you have to get it up first. on 09/05/2011 08:35:33 MDT Print View

in my x the issue is not if the tent can take the hits, it is if you can erect the thing without breaking it. my hoop tents cold be set head-end into the blast, and then you nail down the front stakes, then insert the poles, and THEN pull the rear end to make it all stand up. at that moment, it can fly away/rip/desintegrate, because you are held to the ground with only one end of the tent, and you can only be at one place at a time. two people would make this less challenging. 100kph is a LOT of wind.

my akto is best set sideways to any meaningful blast. then stake the two upwind corners, and it will dance and flap all over the ground. then one sets the windward side guyline (loosely) and insert the pole. for the initial part, it stays better nailed down as the pole insert goes deeper. then at the final moment of complete insertion (use your imagination) , if you had a true for-real 100kph wind, you might be very very busy. if your initial stakes sets were not 100% bomber, and you stupidly lost an anchor, you'd need a new tent.

i have sat there a minute or two hoping for a break in the breeze, but it seems that all i'll ever get is a nice steady moment to shove the pole home. once poled, the structure is stable, because it's all sagged to the ground mostly. you can pull the sideguy and this holds it nicer. so there you are, two anchors and a sideguy, and you are safe for a few minutes. clever folks will pre-have large rocks ready to anchor the other corners.

once firmly anchored, i have no idea how much wind it will take. a lot, i know that. it's not going to stay nice and pretty though. you'll have distortion all over the map. the tent can hit you in the face while you are laying down.

the size of rocks it takes to do this are rather epic.

at some point, as with hypothermia, we should have stopped some time ago, before this situation developed into a frikk'n mess, when we had a choice, and now we have made us in a pickle. and this is how even the occasional eskimo ends up missing.
... ever drive a Very Big truck, with a couple of hinges in the middle of it (trailers) ? you can motor down narrow streets going in, that you can NOT drive backwards out of. one needs to keep that sort of thing in mind. (is just a thought..)

and anyway, where is your pack going to be while we do all this ? it's going to be jouncing along downwind at about 40mph. near top of triple divide pass in glacier, i have had a fully loaded dana terraplane simply up and blow away. so we would need to also anchor our pack to the deck as well. ohhh... it's just so much easier to find an old inuit windbreak and hunker down there.

veeHaa!
v.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Which tents under 3kg will take 100km/h winds from any direction? Soulo: strong cons on 09/05/2011 08:53:02 MDT Print View

Integral Designs Wedge Bivy.

Stuart Murphy
(stu_m) - MLife
Re: Which tents under 3kg will take 100km/h winds from any direction? Soulo: strong cons on 09/05/2011 18:32:09 MDT Print View

Hmmmm

That's really disappointing about the Soulo. I'd sort of come to think that was the "best" solo shelter for heavy conditions - being liveable, strong, light enough for 1 person, light for its strength, exoskeleton / easy to put up in strong wind compared with other designs.

Re fabric: I do think perhaps marketing has created undue interest in silnylon where sometimes polyester would be a better choice (for UV and non-stretch in changing conditions). On the other hand it is somewhat elastic which may actually help performance in severe conditions. The downside is you have to re-tension it (it would appear).

Re condensation: Did you experiment with the vent and door openings? Was it a persistent problem or just now and then? So it was enough to wet out your sleeping bag?

I went skiing with a guy last year that had bought a Soulo and after about 2 nights I think he was just about mentally prepared to acknowledge he wouldn't be using the tent again due to the amount of condensation / sleeping bag getting wet. However, he then opened the vent fully and was happy with it (temperatures would have been close to freezing - not VERY cold).

Re umbrella flapping in the wind making a noise: That's crazy annoying. Did you ask Hilleberg about that?

Re poles: I'm in Australia and those Fliegfix poles would be silly expensive to ship here. I do think they would be a worthwhile upgrade for severe conditions though. Did you use the tent with the original poles at all and if so are you happy with that upgrade?




Re event wedge bivy: Somewhat less comfortable than the Soulo in the majority of conditions (can't sit up / limitations of single wall design / need the optional vestibule in heavy precipitation to prevent it getting into the bivy) but looks as if it would be super stable in wind due to the low profile and multiple guy points. Has anyone actually used one long term that can comment on these issues (I am aware of the original review here http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/integral_designs_wedge_bivy_review.html but no real follow up after long term use).

Edited by stu_m on 09/05/2011 18:34:24 MDT.

Derek Goffin
(Derekoak)

Locale: North of England
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Which tents under 3kg will take 100km/h winds from any direction? on 09/06/2011 15:12:32 MDT Print View

Caveat: the tent must be designed to use internal guy ropes: most are not.

Hi Roger, I want to add internal guys to my Nallo, From top guy point to top guy point. Does the Nallo fall foul of your caveat? A tunnel tent without the pole guys linked internally seems to me to be a structure with a crucial part missing

Stuart Murphy
(stu_m) - MLife
Re: Which tents under 3kg will take 100km/h winds from any direction? on 09/06/2011 17:52:10 MDT Print View

@Derek.

I wouldn't worry too much about the Nallo 2 - I think the August Outdoor Magazin stuck it in fronmt of a fan and it survived to 120 km/h - a very good result regardless of whether a tent is geodesic or not.

Does anyone know whether they quote the best figure (wind from the pointy end) or whether that is the figure with wind hitting the tent broadside? (surely not)

Derek Goffin
(Derekoak)

Locale: North of England
Which tents under 3kg will take 100km/h winds from any direction?" on 09/07/2011 10:01:54 MDT Print View

Hi Stuart,
I guess they test it end on. I was hoping to add internal guys because 1) they are easy to add and light 2) They do not get in the way much with the Nallo, one is just on the porch side of the door and quite high and the other is well over our feet,3) we intend to take the tent to Patagonia and up to 6000+m in the Andes this winter. Double poles are very heavy, perhaps we could get back to one set and some spares?

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Soulo:Which tents under 3kg will take 100km/h winds from any direction? on 09/07/2011 10:14:59 MDT Print View

I was thinking about this more yesterday. Condensation is mentioned as an issue with the Soulo, although it also appears that some forget there is an upper vent and a full backed mesh door on the inner. But realistically, if one is dealing with 100KM winds, is condensation even going to be an issue? Some wind WILL find itself under the tent walls and if the vent is open the wind will take the warmer air with it.

No?

Stuart Murphy
(stu_m) - MLife
Soulo:Which tents under 3kg will take 100km/h winds from any direction? on 09/07/2011 16:32:08 MDT Print View

Sure David,

But what about the other X% of the time when the wind is insignificant?

Would be good to hear from other Soulo users in cold conditions to see whether they think the condensation is manageable or not.

Derek Goffin
(Derekoak)

Locale: North of England
"Which tents under 3kg will take 100km/h winds from any direction?" on 09/12/2011 02:00:32 MDT Print View

I am now enthused by internal guys in tents, at least in the Nallo2. I made a set yesterday and the increase in sideways strength is impressive. See my independant thread "internal guys on a Nallo"

Stuart Murphy
(stu_m) - MLife
"Which tents under 3kg will take 100km/h winds from any direction?" on 11/19/2011 00:39:40 MST Print View

There are a bunch of new videos of lightweight tent tests available on the Outdoor Magazin site and they make for interesting viewing

http://www.outdoor-magazin.com/hilleberg-nallo-2-im-test-vor-der-windmaschine.587507.3.htm

If Google's Translate is to be believed they are claiming the Nallo 2 will take 120 km/h from the side. I find this almost unbelievable (compared with the ultra quasar they rate at 95 km/h)

Compare this with the the single pole Akto which supposedly survived even stronger winds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1iJvk6tKs4

So we have amongst the tents I've just discussed in dercreasing order of wind worthiness:

1. 1 pole tent (Akto)
2. 2 pole tent (Nallo)
3. 4 pole (lightweight version) geodesic (Quasar)

WTF???!!!

Note also that the Quasar achieves a waayyyy lower result than the Crux X2 Storm (which they have covered in a previous test).

What does this teach me? Even accounting for different pole diameters it is impossible to predict a tents performance on paper. (Here I am using a very narrow definition of performance as ability to survive wind)

OK, so for the German speaking amongst us... Is Outdoor Magazin reputable? Are those figures to be trusted and do they rate that tunnel at 120 km/h from the side or is it end on test?

Derek Goffin
(Derekoak)

Locale: North of England
Which tents under 3kg will take 100km/h winds from any direction?" on 11/19/2011 05:31:39 MST Print View

Hi Stuart,
I am pretty sure from the wind indicator and the behaviour of the tent that that is an end on test.
I am just off to the High Andes in an adapted Nallo 2. I have double poles and internal guys and extra guys at the front and back. I think all thos things would improve end on performance compared to the standard Nallo seen in the video. The back pole failed by being pushed down until it broke. An internal guy across the hoop from top guy to top guy would have resisted that. The internal guys only weigh 10 grams. The double poles should help a lot, of course they double the weight of the poles but the tent is still 2.4 kilo. I am just glad the fabric did not go first as I have not improved that.

Erik Basil
(EBasil) - M

Locale: Atzlan
Bibler. done. on 11/19/2011 09:05:34 MST Print View

I see that wiser and more experienced mountaineers have posted an answer to the 60+mph, 6lb issue and, although I recognize there's a plethora of product proffered by purveyors (ho ho), I will add to their point: BIBLER.

Bibler tents are not ultralight, although they "were" when originally designed and marketed by Todd Bibler. Bibler tents are designed and constructed to be bombproof when it gets down to really needing to be, and yet the designs maximize vertical-ish wall space to ensure the area inside the tent is useable. The poles are now old-school aluminum, but are burly, resilient and reliable. They are erected inside the tent. One person can erect and take down these tents, but you better be practiced and clear-headed if you do this in heavy wind.

These are single-skinned, Gore-Tex tents that use an interior fuzzy lining (called Todd-Tex) that grabs aerial moisture/condensation and either helps wick it to the membrane or, in real cold, holds onto the frost pretty well. The membrane won't handle two warm people during a rainstorm w/o opening the well-placed vents, but it works great in sub-freezing weather (and especially with a candle-lantern to keep moisture vaporized and zooming out through the skin of the tent).

My comments are based on years of experience in these tents and it pains me now how "heavy" they are and how I lust for a Big Agnes UL --- but that I would never-ever take into potentially extreme conditions.

All of the Bibler tents are over-built, as you'd want. I have spent a night camped in a stupid location (hubris) with an Ahwahnee in 70mph winds that rotated around sideways to us -- with the center pole pulled from within to allow the eaves to drop, we hunkered down and the lightest-duty of all Biblers did, too. The Fitzroy wouldn't have had any trouble at all in that particular wind.

The Fitzroy isn't UL by backpacking standards, but may well be by mountaineering measure. The suggestion above is well-made, in my view. You want the Fitzroy, or should look it up and check it out at a minimum.

NW Hiker
(king2005ify) - M
Hilleberg Jannu on 11/19/2011 09:17:05 MST Print View

I think the Jannu fits your criteria perfectly, and would take over a tunnel design...the tent feels incredibly tough, and is surprisingly light. I cut all the metal zippers off (annoying in wind, and now easier to grab with gloves), and with lighter guy-lines I come in at 5 lbs, 15 oz.

Look at the reviews, tough to beat. Of course, if you truly want the strongest tent on the planet you just grab a Tarra :)

http://rockandice.com/articles/how-to-climb/article/980-hilleberg-jannu-tent-review

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/4-Season-Tent-Reviews/Hilleberg-Jannu

http://thebackpacker.tv/2008/11/hilleberg-jannu-tent-review/Jannu all zipped up

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Hilleberg Jannu on 11/19/2011 10:33:03 MST Print View

+1 on the Jannu. Hillebergs are the pinnacle.

-1 on the Biblers. I have heard an read quite negative reports on the longer term realiability of these, not to mention some issues with post purchase response from the manufacturer.

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Pitching the beast on 11/19/2011 10:45:36 MST Print View

Remember that you might have to pitch the tent in high winds. With some of the geo tents, that might be a nightmare if solo.
Tunnels may flex when pitched, but they are much easier to pitch, and bending is designed into them.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Which tents under 3kg will take 100km/h winds from any direction? on 11/19/2011 11:30:58 MST Print View

I was in a Tarp tent Scarp 1 last weekend in 60mph + winds and it held well with about a dozen guylines.

On the same night my buddies Scarp suffered broken poles and a ripped fly while pitching.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Which tents under 3kg will take 100km/h winds from any direction? on 11/19/2011 11:59:38 MST Print View

Interesting read:

http://terrybnd.blogspot.com/2011/11/wild-camping-tents-storms.html

drowning in spam
(leaftye) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: Re: Re: Which tents under 3kg will take 100km/h winds from any direction? on 11/19/2011 12:37:02 MST Print View

Which of these tents allow thicker poles to be used without modification to the tent? That's one thing I think my BD Lighthouse will allow. I've already swapped from the original 0.348" poles to 0.355" poles. It might even be able to take 0.433" poles. I can't imagine how incredibly tough this tent would be with those massive poles. It'd be heavy with those big poles, but that'd be okay since I still have a choice of using lighter poles.

I do like that the Scarp tents allow additional poles to be used. That's a smart design. I'd like to see more tents that allow either more poles or thicker poles.