I am doing my homework on a new winter sleeping bag and have it narrowed down to 5 bags!!! The conditions are ADK, VT, and NH with as much snow as possible. The rest of the shelter/sleep system is a Shangru LA 2 and MYOG bivy that will be a bathtub bottom and sides with breatable top. VBL bag liner as well.

Here they are:
WM versalite 20oz fill 6" loft 10F 2lbs
WM antelope mf 26oz fill 7" loft 5F 2lbs 7oz
WM antelope gws 26oz fill 7" loft 5F 2lbs 13oz
FF lark 25.3oz fill 6" loft 10F 6" loft 2lbs 5oz
FF snowbunting 25.3oz 7" loft 0F 2lbs 13oz

My big questions now are am I dreaming of a 2lb winter bag and not thinking logically about the versalite. It can also be over filled 3oz but that is still 2.3oz less than the min of the others

The antelope mf/gws is a difference in fabric. Is it worth the gore windstopper fabric, weight and price ($95) knowing that I will be in a bivy?

The FF bags weights listed are in epic fabric. Event is available for more $$$ is that worth it knowing I will be in a bivy?

Thanks for the help

IMHO, both Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends make excellent products, so it won't be catastrophic whichever way you decide. Yes, they can get a little pricey.

I own one Feathered Friends bag that is over 25 years old now, and it is in almost pristine condition.

For any winter bag, I always select something that is at least 10F better rated than the temperatures that I expect to run into.

--B.G.--

My main question is how cold will you be going out in? The temperature in NH routinely goes below 0F in the winter, although it can also go well above freezing, if it feels like it. I've personally been out in -13F, and have seen forecasts for much colder than that.

I'm not sure that I'd want to be out in a 10F bag when it hits -10F. In order to do that, the bag would have to be roomy enough to allow you to sleep with your normal down clothing either on you or layered over you, depending on taste. If you get a narrow bag for efficiency, then that won't work. My personal preference has been either a MontBell stretchy-something ( I have the discontinued UL Super Stretch series) or a Nunatak down quilt.

Yes, the VBL will add additional warmth, but not that much. Also, consider the possibility of using VBL clothing rather than a bag liner. If you sleep in down clothing, then the VBL liner will trap the moisture inside the clothing, and it will accumulate over a few days. And VBL is generally most effective when used near the skin.

Personally, being the owner of 2 very good, very warn synthgetic winter bags I'd NEVER get anothr synthetic winter bag. They are heavy and lose loft with use, even with the best of care during storage.

My future ideal winter down bad would have the following:

1. 800 fill or better down
2. VERY water resistant shell with radio wave glued baffles. if possible
3. good zipper baffle good neck collar W/ SNAPS, not Velcro (or add snaps after purchase)
4. LONG size for storing stuff I want to keep warm, liquid, functional, etc.
5. face/hood draw cords that have one flat cord, one round cord so I could tell which was chin cord and which was head cord by feel!!!
6. extra zipper W/ full length gore to accomodate an inner bag to extend the temp range. My Mt.n. Hardwear -20 bag has this and I love it.

Edited by Danepacker on 09/09/2010 23:48:58 MDT.

I have a versalite with no overfill which weighs in at 2lb 3.7oz. It is a great bag and I have used it a lot in the past four years down into the single digits. I would not want to use it below zero. Even with a solid sleeping pad. The areas you mention can get very cold in the winter and personally I would be looking at -10F bag.

Everybody sleeps differently. But, I have had my Versalite down to 0 degrees and been just fine just wearing capilene 2 bottoms and top.

Thanks everyone for your insight,
The worst case temperature could be -20F. That would not be a sustained temp, just the coldest it gets at 3am. A more reasonable sustained temp would be single digits to -single digits. I am a warm sleeper. My current bag is a 15F synthetic Marmot bag. I have taken that bag to low teens high single digits. My logic for the range of 0-10F ratings is that my warm sleeping adds a few degrees, VBL adds a few degrees, bivy adds a few degrees. I think conservatively I could add 10F of warmth to whatever rating is on the bag and the really cold nights I would layer on the warm clothes. Most of my clothing is synthetic so I can be a little more risky with the amount of down in my sleeping bag because of my synthetic insurance policy.
I think Brian confirmed my thoughts about the versalite being too much of a risk.

The biggest question I have is based on my sleeping system what shell fabric should I go with?

What is WM’s microlite and is it worth the upgrade to gore windstopper?

For the FF bags will epic fabric be enough, or should I go with event? My shell is event, and I love it but I am nervous that it is much heavier than the other three fabrics I am looking at. Does anyone have experience or weights on an event sleeping bag?

As an important side note it dropped to the low 50’s out east last night!!! Only 20F away from freezing and snow. I think talking about winter bags is bringing that out and I couldn’t be happier!!!!

I have the WM Antelope MF. It's a narrow bag and it's warm. I got the microfiber instead of the gore windstopper for three reasons: it breathes better, it's lighter and it will last, since it's not a laminate. It's also almost as weather proof as the windstopper. If you're looking to regularly expose your bag to the elements, maybe you should consider the gore laminate, but if you use a bivy or a tent and would only be exposed to the elements in an emergency (e.g., tent or bivy failure) I recommend you consider the microfiber. And even though the windstopper fabric is more water resistant to external moisture, water will still get in via the seams. There's a podcast out there in which WM's marketing guy talks about all things WM, including the difference between the fabric shells. If you want all the details on the difference, listen to the podcast. good luck

Here's the podcast I was talking about.http://www.practicalbackpacking.com/audio/pbpodcast/PBP-28_Western-Mountaineering.mp3

Edited by Gabe on 09/10/2010 09:16:43 MDT.

A couple of comments:

- If you're using a bivy, then the bag shouldn't be exposed to the elements. I'd go for something simple like Epic or Momentum.

- Since you plan to use some kind of VBL, then breathability doesn't really become much of a factor.

- When you're talking about that kind of cold, the insulation of the pad underneath you is at least as important as that above you. Make sure you get a very good pad, and don't just go with whatever you normally use for three season camping.

I have my pads covered, Z rest and a trail rest @ 5.5 total R value.

I think I am sold on the Antelope microfiber shell fabric. Now I just need to sell a kidney to pay for it.

Thanks everyone for your help with this!!!

Edited by earn_my_turns on 09/10/2010 20:00:34 MDT.

I have the Antelope MF, it's a great bag. With good insulating clothing it goes to -10 no problem.

I don't see the point of GWS in winter bags. It just makes condensation evaporate slower. The WM microfiber is good stuff.

If you're hoping to push to -20 at times, get the Antelope MF w/overfill. I probably wouldn't bother with the WS... although I do have it on mine and do like that it forms a waterproof channel of sorts for my exhalations. Not a big deal, mainly psychological probably... Although, if floorless shelter/ sil bivy combo... have to consider the weight of the bivy as compared to the weight of the ws shell, & whether you'd be likely to use a groundsheet of some type for the rest of your gear.

W/the VBL, I feel the Hotsac adds a legitimate 10-15 degrees. Combine w/an extra warm balaclava and a warm pad or pad combo, you should be set to push temps on occasion.

I have owned the FF Snowbunting and the WM Versalite and both will be a little cool to cold when approaching 0. The Antelope, and Versalite, have a cut that is a little roomier in the torso for layering than the FF Snowbunting.

My deep winter bag was a FF Peregrine that was toasty down to -30f. It was also heavy, bulky, and a bear to stuff in the Gore WS fabric I had it in.

If you are looking to push a lighter bag I would go with the Antelope MF.

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Edited by rOg_w on 05/28/2012 14:30:47 MDT.

I thought about the no bivy and go with the GWS shell fabric, but I like the thought of carring my bivy during the day incase I wrap myself around a tree. The routine will be hike in set up base camp and then hike up, ride down, repeat. Carring a 8-9oz bivy is a nice security blanket.

with the purchase of the sleeping bag I am going to rework my insulation layers to give the bag a greater range. The warmer bag + all my clothes (+VBL) should get me down to the nastiest -20. I may not sleep that great, but I will easily survive it for a night. My average trip is only a weekend, so if the sleeping isn't great that is what work is for on monday morning;)

If we can switch topics to VBL though. I am completely new to this concept. I get the end result not sure how to get there though. My original thought was to just get the bag liner and be done with it. However I am looking at taking a weeklong trip in January in the ADK high peaks and VBL clothes on atleast my feet and top during the day seems like it would be worth the weight on that type of trip. I am going to get the socks from warmlite, but I can't see myself wearing one of those rainjacket looking shirts on the 70's lady in the website http://warmlite.com/vapor-barrier-clothing.

If I chose multible clothing items: socks, pants, shirt, and gloves. Do I have to make sure each layer overlaps or tucks into each other to not leak?