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Eric Fredricksen
(efredricksen) - MLife

Locale: Silicon Valley
What insulation? on 08/30/2010 17:02:28 MDT Print View

I'm thinking of dipping my toe into this hammock business (I have my eye on the Hennesy HL) but, if you'll pardon my n00bishness, I'm not clear on what insulation is typically used.

I assume that with just a mummy bag, you'll freeze your buns in cool weather.

Under-quilt and over-quilt? Or is that just for winter?

Or a sleeping pad or something inside the hammock? Is that done? Seems like it would provide a good fallback when there's no convenient trees to be had.

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: What insulation? on 08/30/2010 17:24:46 MDT Print View

Eric,

Yes a sleeping pad is used inside the hammock for insulation purposes. They are commonly CCF pads of the wider width because of cupped shape they adopt.

Top quilts are more easily used in the hammock as opposed to mummy bags. There is not as much wiggling neccessary to get under a top quilt as is needed to get into a mummy bag. Top quilts are not just for winter as temps at night can drop rather dramtically. I experienced upper forty degree temps this past June on Roan Mtn.

Under quilts are used when the temperature dips because the user is subject to heat loss due to the lack of insulation of the thin nylon fabric. A mummy bag would lose its insulation value because of the loft being crushed under the user's weight and against the hammock fabric.

Party On,

Newton

Edited by Newton on 08/30/2010 17:29:37 MDT.

Eric Fredricksen
(efredricksen) - MLife

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: What insulation? on 08/30/2010 17:53:23 MDT Print View

Ah, I see - such as a Gossamer Gear 1/4" ThinLight Wide, perhaps.

Michael Davis
(mad777) - F

Locale: South Florida
Re: What insulation? (for hammocks) on 08/30/2010 19:35:23 MDT Print View

Once you go to a hammock, you'll never go back to the ground!

The Gossamer Gear pads will work for summer evenings but an underquilt will be much more comfortable and required when cold weather comes. Ditch the sleeping bag as the bottom insulation is wasted and, unless you're an acrobat, you won't like it anyway.

You can even make an under quilt just long enough to cover from your knees to your shoulders, then add a CCF pad for your feet to your knees.

Top quilt is the way to go and they can be a bit narrower for hammocks than for the ground.

It's easy to make you're own top and under quilts; if I can do it, anyone can!

I highly recommend you consider the Warbonnet Blackbird hammock. I weigh a little shy of 200# and the 1.1 double has served me well. I slide the CCF foot pad in between the layers and it stay put all night. Can't beat the built-in footbox. http://www.warbonnetoutdoors.com/

For more information than you ever want to know about hammocks, go to http://www.hammockforums.com You will find the nicest people on the internet.

Justin Carter
(orangebananas) - F

Locale: San Francisco East Bay
zing on 08/31/2010 10:15:27 MDT Print View

I currently use a mummy bag unzipped on top and either my Te-Wa Summer Under-quilt or a Gossamer Gear Thinlight underneath me. I also sleep very very warm, sometimes I'll go without any insulation.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: zing on 08/31/2010 11:41:53 MDT Print View

Never could get used to using a pad for under insulation in a hammock. Just never found it comfortable. In the cold weather I use an underquilt (cuben/down UQ from Tim Marshall at enLIGHTened equipment). In the summer I use a JRB Weather Shield 2 - I find it perfect for summer temps and quite light (like 7 or 8 oz I think).

Eric Fredricksen
(efredricksen) - MLife

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: zing on 08/31/2010 13:41:31 MDT Print View

Hm, I was thinking a cuben UQ would make sense since (I'm supposing) breathability wouldn't be an issue with a UQ, and I could save some weight that way. Perhaps in a 2/3 length - that should be mighty light.

Currently considering a Nunatak Specialist for on top (I imagine the narrower Ghost would be okay for a hammock, but the Specialist would be more flexible, I suppose, for an extra ounce.

I've pretty much switched my thinking to a WBBB double 1.0 (I'm about 188 lbs (today)) for the hammock.

And I guess I can use my MLD Grace Solo tarp or maybe spring for one of their hammock tarps.

Still figuring out suspension. Whoopie slings look cool, and perhaps a Dutch clip. My head is spinning.

Paul Gibson
(pgibson) - F

Locale: SW Idaho
Suspension on 08/31/2010 14:02:44 MDT Print View

Hey Eric, at your weight you would be fine with some dynaglide whoopies. I rate ours to 225 pounds, and know of a hanger that is 340 that is using them,though that is pushing it in my opinion. And if you are working to count weight I would not bother with Dutch clips, no offense to Dutch but I don't see a lot of advantage to them if you are using a whoopie style system, it is just as easy and nearly as quick to just loop one end of the strap though the other and tighten to the tree.

Paul

Eric Fredricksen
(efredricksen) - MLife

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Suspension on 08/31/2010 15:14:02 MDT Print View

Thanks, Paul. So with the WBBB with webbing option and the whoopies, would I be set for suspension? Or do I need toggles or anything else?

Paul Gibson
(pgibson) - F

Locale: SW Idaho
Re. Suspension on 08/31/2010 16:16:50 MDT Print View

Eric, If you do the WBBB with webbing and a carabiner or Dutch clip then you are set, changing the suspension to whoopies, you would need tree straps---you could cut down the stock webbing suspension to fit the size trees you have in your area (most folks in the contry are good with 6-8 foot long straps and some areas are ok with less than that, though some need more) Add a set of whoopies, and some way of attaching them to the webbing. Many folks use a toggle, toggles can be made from all sorts of things, from a stick of the ground to aluminum tube to carbon fiber from old golf clubs or arrows or or or... all sorts of things will work.

Eric Fredricksen
(efredricksen) - MLife

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re. Suspension on 08/31/2010 16:34:58 MDT Print View

Oh, I see. The don't have pictures of the two WBBB suspension options so it can be hard to figure out what they're talking about. So I should choose their line/strap suspension method if I want to use whoopie straps.

Paul Gibson
(pgibson) - F

Locale: SW Idaho
Re. Suspension on 08/31/2010 16:55:07 MDT Print View

If you are just going to change it out it really dose not matter one way or the other, especially considering there is not cost difference.. If I were just starting out and wanted to get some of the learning curve out of the way before muddling the water with customizing I would stick with webbing and buckle suspensions. We are one of the main suspension shops and even as popular as the whoopies are we sell a ton of webbing with buckles or rings, nearly as many as whoopies. It is simple, fast and easy to learn. Whoopies--especially if you go all the way to Dynaglide ones-- will save you 4-8 oz, depending on which stock system you change to, but even more so will save you a good bit of bulk.

Michael Davis
(mad777) - F

Locale: South Florida
Re. Suspension on 08/31/2010 17:59:45 MDT Print View

I agree with Paul. Go with the full straps at first. They are simply a no-brainer to set up and that will clear your mind for other things that need learning, like ridge line tension, etc.

Not that whoopies are difficult to master. It's just that they aren't as intuitive at first glance. You will most likely graduate to whoopies once your are comfortable with hammocking. As a matter of fact, Paul can set you up with the finished product or the materials to try your own hand at a magical whoopie suspension.

Eric Fredricksen
(efredricksen) - MLife

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re. Suspension on 08/31/2010 22:05:49 MDT Print View

Sounds like good advice - I'll start with webbing & keep it simple. I'm mostly trying not to go down the wrong road and invest in the wrong plan; sounds like that won't be a problem.

(Also, due to have two youngsters, much of my backpacking is done as a gedankenexperiment. I think my ratio knowledge of lightweight gear to time spent actually using it is lamentably high.)

te - wa
(mikeinfhaz) - F

Locale: Phoenix
Re: Re: Re. Suspension on 09/01/2010 13:30:21 MDT Print View

i have used all sorts of suspensions. some stock hammock kits are puzzling, why they offer poor suspensions is a mystery.

others, like the wbbb are easy to use at first try.

if i were you.... get the "line/straps" suspension method on your wbbb, then once you change it out to whoopies, you are left with a good amount of amsteel. id rather have 15' of free amsteel any day over 15' of webbing.

heck, you can even use the line straps suspension and make your own whoopies.

i have graduated to a whoopie/amsteel suspension, wherein the amsteel takes the place of the tree hugger webbing, and i use a section about 5' long per side, with overhand knots tied in both ends. one end acts to pass thru the hole of the other, thus tightening to the tree. to protect the bark, i insert a few twigs around the diameter of the tree between the bark and the amsteel.

at the hammock side, i use 3" sections of aluminum arrow shaft.

this results in a full sized, 1.1 layer blackbird including suspension that is 16.1 ounces.

Edited by mikeinfhaz on 09/01/2010 13:30:55 MDT.

Eric Fredricksen
(efredricksen) - MLife

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: Re. Suspension on 09/01/2010 17:04:31 MDT Print View

Great - thanks for the ideas!

Paul Gibson
(pgibson) - F

Locale: SW Idaho
Re. Suspension on 09/01/2010 17:28:31 MDT Print View

Eric, where about in the NW are you? I am hosting a hammock hangers get together here in Idaho next week in the Sawtooths. There looks like there will be 5 or so of us hanging maybe some more if other last minute folks join. If you are anywhere in the area you could come join us and check out a variety of hammocks and suspension options along with under and top quilts from a variety of makers. I am going to premier some new products that we are working on, along with field test some prototype gear.

Paul

Eric Fredricksen
(efredricksen) - MLife

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re. Suspension on 09/01/2010 18:04:06 MDT Print View

Seattle. Probably not possible for me, but thanks for the invite.