I hear protein is very important after excercise in order to repair muscle. Will protein help minimize sore muscles the next day? Will the benefits of protein be realized within a few days while your still on your hike?

I hear Quinoa is a great protein source. Is it a more protein-dense source than say beef or chicken? How much would i add to my dinner to boost my protein intake?

"Is it a more protein-dense source than say beef or chicken?"
The most protein-dense backpacking food I know of, other than things like protein powders, etc., is beef jerky. This site http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/snacks/5332/2 has nutritional info on a lot of different foods. Jerky is about 35% protein by weight. Cooked quinoa is about 15%. Lentils are about 9%, hard tofu without water about 12%.

Historically, there was a belief for a long time that people living typical sedentary lifestyles wouldn't get enough protein from a vegetarian diet. It turns out that the science behind that was flawed, but for decades vegetarians were worrying about things like making meals that had complementary proteins in them. Now that the scientific smoke has cleared, it's pretty clear that a vegetarian with a typical lifestyle, who eats a variety of healthy foods (i.e., who is not a bagels-and-potato-chip vegetarian) gets plenty of protein. (Vegans and children may need to be more careful.)

Backpacking is very different from a typical modern lifestyle in an industrialized country. At home, I eat vegetarian 80% of the time, and I don't worry about getting enough protein. While hiking, especially on a longer hike, I try to be a little more careful by disciplining myself to bring 50-35-15 proportions of carbs, fat, and protein. Quinoa gets 15% of its calories from protein, so even if all you ate was quinoa, you'd still just barely be getting that amount of protein. I'm just not able to put together any purely vegetarian backpacking diet that has 15% of its calories from protein.

"I hear protein is very important after excercise in order to repair muscle. Will protein help minimize sore muscles the next day? Will the benefits of protein be realized within a few days while your still on your hike?"
If your hike is only a few days long, I doubt that any of this matters. Of course people will always make various claims based on their individual, subjective impressions that eating XYZ made them feel good or bad, but I would take those with a grain of salt. If there's anyone on here who has a good knowledge of exercise physiology, they might be able to give a more definitive answer, but my impression is that repairing muscle and building new muscle mass is a slow process, so it's not even something to consider on a hike that's a few days long.

Edited by bcrowell on 08/04/2010 15:20:41 MDT.

I tried a few, fetucini alfredo, mexican rice, chicken fetucini. Using about half the water recommended seemed about right when cooking fbc style. However, the noodles always came out super slimy and sticky and the rice always came out hard and over flavored. It was almost like fbc intensifies the flavors making everything seem too salty and rich. The Idahoan twice baked potatos came out right on but it was too rich to be eaten alone, i would need to combine them with sommething. getting close to my trips so i may have to give up and go with MH meals (again).

Sure...if you like Quinoa that is. I like the red version myself!

Both kinds cook up and dry easily so you can have an instant version. And yes, done that way it works nicely FBC style :-)

BTW, you can get it ready to go in instant as well:
http://outdoorherbivore.com/products/dehydrated-quinoa/

Great website, thanks Sarah. I have a Henry's nearby, I think I'll stop by there and pickup some quinoa for my cereal. Do i need to look for instant quinoa for cereal too?

http://www.quinoa.net/145/154.html
Take a look at that, then hit up your local natural food store. The quinoa flakes are instant and make a GREAT hot cereal!

I've used quinoa that I have cooked and then dehydrated to make them instant for dinner meals. Now I think it might be good for breakfast, but I haven't figured out what to cook with it. Maple syrup is too heavy. F.D. fruit bits would be good. F.D. strawberries or peaches are excellent.

--B.G.--

I thought I saw some folks adding Quinoa to their muesli, so that was my plan. But as a hot cereal I assume you could just treat it like oatmeal, dry fruit, sliced nuts, butter, brown sugar, etc.

And if one uses powdered maple syrup it is easy/tasty :)

Somebody needs to package powdered maple syrup into little paper packets like granulated white sugar. Then I would take a dozen packets for each trip.

I might have to experiment with white sugar or brown sugar and some maple extract. Hmmm, with coffee added.

--B.G.--

Where was I reading it that if you dry brown sugar in your dehydrator it well, gets dryer, more like regular sugar. A thought on saving weight!

Great. If I don't like the final result, I can eat it.

--B.G.--

Calories are what's most important when backpacking, and as long as you eat enough calories so as not to lose weight, you will probably absorb enough protein. Not all protein is created equal; gelatin is pure protein, but it won't serve the purpose of rebuilding tissue all by itself. The protein quality of quinoa is most likely no better than other grains. A variety of fruit combined with a handful of brazil nuts, hazlenuts, or walnuts will actually give you all the protein you need for a day. I would imagine most of us need to eat 3000-5000 calories on the trail, so most of your diet can just be what you enjoy eating.

Unfortunately for the vegetarian on a long hike, vitamins D and B12, as well as cholesterol will be scarce. If you can tolerate fish or egg, dried versions of either will be good sources of protein, too.

In addition to protein, nuts are also an excellent source of healthy (monounsaturated) fat and therefore calories. Nuts and dried fruit are my "lunch"--which I nibble at all day rather than having a meal at noon.

While vitamin B12 can be an issue for vegans, I very much doubt that vitamin D will be an issue when you're spending all day outdoors!

Zachary Zrull wrote: "Calories are what's most important when backpacking, and as long as you eat enough calories so as not to lose weight, you will probably absorb enough protein."
I would like to believe this was true, because it would allow me to increase the energy density of my food, and it would also allow me to eat vegetarian while backpacking. I'm sure it doesn't matter on a 3-day hike, but on a long trip, I'd really worry about not getting enough protein to build muscle and repair injuries. My mostly vegetarian diet at home includes high-protein foods like eggs and tofu, which aren't practical for me to eat on the trail.

"A variety of fruit combined with a handful of brazil nuts, hazlenuts, or walnuts will actually give you all the protein you need for a day."
Hazelnuts, for example, get 8% of their calories from protein. So even if my diet was nothing but hazelnuts, I'd still only be getting about half the amount of protein I want. The other problem with eating this many nuts is that you'll end up with a diet that's extremely high in fat, with not enough carbs in it.

"Unfortunately for the vegetarian on a long hike, vitamins D and B12, as well as cholesterol will be scarce."
A multivitamin takes care of that.

Quinoa if I remember right is actually a complete protein. That is why it is so revered by some.

"I would like to believe this was true, because it would allow me to increase the energy density of my food, and it would also allow me to eat vegetarian while backpacking. I'm sure it doesn't matter on a 3-day hike, but on a long trip, I'd really worry about not getting enough protein to build muscle and repair injuries. My mostly vegetarian diet at home includes high-protein foods like eggs and tofu, which aren't practical for me to eat on the trail."

Have you looked into soy protein and whey protein? Both contain readily available, high quality protein and blend well with powdered milk to add to your breakfast. You could just combine them with granola in the same bag, if you eat granola. They can also be added to soups and thicker textured items like mashed potatoes. Then, protein requirements satisfied, you can go about densifying you calorie content by adding fats from many different sources-pure oils, nuts, high cacao chocolate to mention a few.

Quinoa is a seed, not a grain, so the protein quality is actually quite different that that of, say, oatmeal, in terms of amino acid profile. I blend quick oats and quinoa flakes as a base for muesli, because it provides a better spectrum of aminos than oats alone.

The difficulty of vegan/vegetarian backpacking makes itself quite clear on extended trips, as Ben notes. Your body *will* absorb enough protein, but it will absorb it from your muscles, tendons, ligaments. The same with B12--the body stores some in the liver, but once it depletes that source, you'll become vitamin deficient, and a b12 deficiency can lead to depression, difficulty sleeping, low energy, etc.

As for a handful of nuts providing adequate protein for the day: 1 oz of almonds, eg, contains about 8 g of protein. A moderately active 120 lb person needs roughly 50 g of protein a day, but under physically demanding conditions should probably be aiming for 80-85 grams/day. I love almonds, but that's a lot of almonds (a bag of whole raw almonds from the baking section of the supermarkets is usually 10 or 12 oz and costs 4 or 5 bucks).

Protein intake will vary widely form person to person, according to metabolism, body type, etc, but those are the numbers I use for myself.

"As for a handful of nuts providing adequate protein for the day: 1 oz of almonds, eg, contains about 8 g of protein. A moderately active 120 lb person needs roughly 50 g of protein a day, but under physically demanding conditions should probably be aiming for 80-85 grams/day. I love almonds, but that's a lot of almonds (a bag of whole raw almonds from the baking section of the supermarkets is usually 10 or 12 oz and costs 4 or 5 bucks)."

Again, if it's high quality protein in a concentrated form that you are looking for, you really should investigate soy and whey protein. They are the 2 top rated sources of protein in terms of digestability and suitability of their amino acid profiles for human requirements. The protein content of commercial preparations varies from 50-90% by weight, at least the ones I am familiar with, which far exceeds Ben's 15% requirement. An ounce of 90% soy protein stirred into your granola, oatmeal, etc in the morning and an ounce stirred into a soup or stew in the evening would give you ~50 grams of high quality protein, allowing you to devote the rest of your diet to more fully flavored foods higher in either fat or carbs, according to your preferences, with protein a secondary consideration. You should still be able to add 25-30 grams of protein in this way from nuts, grains, powdered milk, etc, and have a solid vegetarian diet in the bargain.

Edited by ouzel on 08/10/2010 17:19:12 MDT.

I think I was raised on mother's milk, not soy or whey.

That's it. Where can I buy some dehydrated mother's milk for my next backpack trip? :-)

--B.G.--

"Where can I buy some dehydrated mother's milk for my next backpack trip?"

I'd think you'd have a heck of a time getting the 'mother's milk container' in the dehydrator.......

You wouldn't like it...lol! It is about the blandest liquid ever, though no where as gross as baby formula :-P

It is why when babies first get ripe fruit they go ga-ga over it - it tastes so good.

(Walker spent 30 minutes licking a piece of ripe cantaloupe on Sunday and cried when I took it away......) He then scowled at his bottle.

I would think that you would have Walker weaned onto freezer bag meals by now.

--B.G.--

He knows a good thing when he sees it ;-) Though he is looking to be teething soon....

Mother's milk is for babies, cow's milk is for baby cows, soybeans are for grazing animals with four stomachs...

I recommend brazil nuts and fruit because the combination of these contain favorable amounts of methionine and cystine, amino acids which are deficient and therefore limiting in most other foods. They are also easily packable, vegan, calorie-dense, and contain micronutrients. And it's silly to talk about eating "only almonds/oats/quinoa/etc all day" because you aren't doing that, and protein in even small quantities like fruit and nuts is not negligible, especially if it's of high quality. If you're interested, the Free Acne Book(ignoring the name) contains a detailed study of amino acids. The surrounding "Wai" sites also have lots of (referenced) info about diet and protein.

The issue with whatever diets that get tossed out though is sustainability - and by that...can a person eat that way for a month, a year, 20 years, etc. Some people can do it - but for most it isn't realistic. But as well....we rope ourselves into treating food as an enemy - not something to be celebrated, enjoyed.
Trying new foods is a wonderful thing - not in excess but just that - trying. Anytime we deny ourselves we should ask why are we denying?
Modern diets might not always be great....we have too much processed food for example but you can bet that our ancestors would have loved the chance to try the foods we have these days.
Food isn't the enemy.

AND . . .
oI am one of the Sarah meal suggestion followers. The joy mixing spices, etc. to develop that "unique" meal is fun.

Many a time I ended up eating at home one of her "fixings" because I could not wait for the nights' camp to try it.

Maybe I don't fit in here.

To me, food is simply fuel for my body.

Just like for an auto engine, I want to use fuel that is appropriate and the engine will run smoothly. I don't want fuel that will cause the engine to seize up.

--B.G.--

Bob...I can only bet I'd drive you crazy ;-) My husband will try anything I put in front of him - but like many men hates grocery shopping. It causes him endless teeth grinding when he is forced to come with me - simply becuase I walk about 1/10 mph while shopping, looking at everything. He was looking in the bags from Trader Joe's last week and asked "What the &*(^ are you going to make with all this weird stuff?" Hah! I see new items and in my mind I can see exciting ideas :-D

Sarah :
"But as well....we rope ourselves into treating food as an enemy - not something to be celebrated, enjoyed.
Trying new foods is a wonderful thing - not in excess but just that - trying. Anytime we deny ourselves we should ask why are we denying?"

I am with you there...
In fact I am always very suspicious of and rarely get on with people that do not enjoy eating.
And that , to me , is the "key" :enjoy.
Have a look at the French diet. Butter, sauces, cheese ... yet till McDonald arrived there , very few obese people.
Where I grew up (on the Italian/Swiss border) we have a similar "diet".
At 5'7" 150 lbs I am the fat one in my family....(mind you, in the village you either walk up or down, so exercise is not an option)
The reason is not what you eat but how...
Take your time eating, enjoy your food, eat well but smaller portions. You will lose weight..
Here is a "personal" (not mine) non scientific (!) account :
http://gofrance.about.com/od/issuesnewshottopics/a/diet.htm
BTW, anedoctally , a good coversation during meals (TV is not a conversation) helps...
Franco

Franco said: "The reason is not what you eat but how...
Take your time eating, enjoy your food, eat well but smaller portions. You will lose weight..
Here is a "personal" (not mine) non scientific (!) account :"

My own personal account is that that is VERY TRUE! I'm around 175 lb now. Amost seven years ago I was about 225 lb. I'm 5'11".

I changed my lifestyle to become very active. Backingpacking was my paradigm shifter. Especially the going lighter thought process. Food is no enemy. I enjoy food. Healthy food. Junk food is repulsive to me now.

Last month my wife and I backpacked about a week in CA. The weekend before and after we feasted in San Fran with my son and his girlfriend and some relatives. When I returned home, I found that I'd lost a few pounds.

It's ALL about burning more calories than you eat. This works much BETTER if what you eat is healthy because then you have the energy to be active.

We all have the power to actually rewire our brains by changing our lifestyle. We just have to really want to do it - not for anybody else - but for yourself.

On yeah, quinoa is good stuff but so is 70% chocolate : )

For me, it's not food that's the enemy. Weight loss is the enemy. On a long hike, my concern is that I'll deplete my fat reserves.