I think this argument that is made that fat guys should stop being fat before they wast their time being UL assumes that being fat is a choice. Some of us can be ripped and over 250 easy! We are big people.

I am a big fella, its well documented. I am 6'2" and 300lbs, and could take any of you in a fight (not just because i'm big, but because i'm trained and big)!

UL is about taking only what you need and heading out. If i was hiking as a professional, i would concern myself with cutting every unnecessary ounce off my body as well. However, I, Like most everyone here, hike because i love the connection with nature i get from it. I enjoy sleeping next to the rain under my tiny tarp (not as small as yours, sadly) knowing that i can stay warm under a thin quilt instead of a bulky sleeping bag.

The less i carry the more i can explore and enjoy. My right to this desire isn't negated by my extra 50lbs, in fact i need UL even more. The more out of shape a person is the less they can comfortable carry over distance, and terrain. It also can not be assumed that a measure of a person's fitness can only be seen in lbs. I have hiked with people of all fitness levels and body types, and have always been the fattest. However, there were also many times when i was the fastest, and times when i wasn't. The less fit a person is the more prepared they need to be. I prepare for my outings by shaving oz after oz so i can compensate for my fitness deficit by carrying the lightest pack possible.

Again, if i were preparing for a thru-hike or a profession in the sport of backpacking i would be more concerned that my body be trained and prepared, but for the few weekends a year i actually get to spend in the wilderness, it isn't important enough to spend my entire year preparing for. It's just for fun after all.

-Tim (Big Tim, as they call me in the gym)

Well said, Tim!
I'm 6'3", 225 lbs. Size 38 kilt, xxl shirt. And if you remember, you know that i needed you to make my quilt "long/extra-wide". The BIGFOOT quilt is still going strong, by the way. Thanks!

Matt (BIGFOOT) Perry

P.S.
Muscle weighs more than fat :) On my last hike, i had to slow down so my 155 lb. companion could keep up.

Edited by bigfoot2 on 07/26/2010 10:42:43 MDT.

Well said Tim. I am in the exact same position. 6'1, 315. As I mentioned before, I was a semi-pro football player for several years so not only am I just predispositioned to be big (coming from a burly Eastern European blood line), but I trained and worked hard to be big as well.

That said, I can do MANY things that people half my size can't do, including competing in several triathlons where "big" was considered anyone over 225... and I never finished last.

His statement only speaks to his ignorance on the issue and adds no value to these forums, especially this thread in particular.

These statements have always frustrated me but i do see them less than i used to.

Bigfoot- Quilt still going strong?

Back to the point of this thread...

I have always had a hard time finding the right rain/wind top also. I have ended up just making my own wind top and think i will probably just make my own rain shell with some light weight 2.5layer WPB.

I haven't used the Drop Stoppers, but have used other brands of similar construction and found the durability to be nil. I tore the crotch out of the pants 1st time i used them. Has to do with what XXL means to them vs how i am actually built. Most XXL are far to short for me, we aren't all George Costanza! The sleeves are too short and flop like my arms are as big as my legs. I have found that a lot of XL shell tops fit me great and can layer over fleece but i haven't found this true of the light weight ones.

Maybe this winter i'll find the time to develop a wind and rain jacket that fits me great and i'll offer a few on my site. Maybe.

I do like options like the packa and the like as i think it is unrealistic to expect a light jacket to stand up to strap abrasion well. I also think even breathable jackets don't breath enough and the added air space of the jacket over the body then the pack improves air flow. RC's mountain poncho should have the same benefits. Maybe i'll build one off RC's plans to see how it works out.

-Tim

fight fight fight!!! =P Oh and tim, you could take me, if i didn't get you in a heel hook first, or get ahold of an arm. I would have to survive the initial big guy onslaught, but once you got tired (which big guys do easily, especially after an adrenaline dump), i would have the advantage.=P

Edited by isaac.mouser on 07/26/2010 10:47:31 MDT.

I'd love to find out!

I am no slouch on the ground. I teach BJJ!

I don't mean i'd love to find out in a mean way, i love to test myself against any opponent and enjoy the competition immensely.

I do agree that the adrenaline dump is a beatch. I fought in a local toughman this year after taking a few years away from fighting and hard training and i gassed so fast, not due to cardio but to the nerves. I hadn't prepared the right way, both physically and mentally. I ended up 1-1 but wasn't happy with either performance. Not a mark on me though after 2 fights!

-Tim

Edited by MarshLaw303 on 07/26/2010 11:12:24 MDT.

Don't mess with us big guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dix9cgC8Gg8

My comment wasn't meant to be rude but it was pointed. Sorry if it was taken in a way where I sound rude and mean.

My point is, while we all agree being light is good we can agree that being out of shape is bad.

My post wasn't aimed at big guys who are just big and in shape like Tim


Tim you asked about a 3% body fat? Here you go this was in Korea when I was 18 finally competing in the adults international TKD thing. I'm the only white kid :)

We should open a different thread up for all us guys on the martial arts thing - that would be rad :)

My point is if you are over-weight cutting down pack weight is good but once you get to the point of diminishing returns you need to start cutting weight off of you. Get your big four trimmed out but don't mess with cutting your toothbrush in half if you look like Bob from Fight Club. I'm being funny but serious at the same time if you know you're easily 45+lbs over weight you can stand to lose some weight and be a healthier person.

I don't believe the whole "I work out and I can't lose weight" BS there's always a catch. The laws of thermodynamics apply to us all and let's face it there weren't any fat prisoners in a WWII concentration camp. So yes theoretically everyone can be sickly skinny.

We've had this discussion several times on these forums and the bottom line is less fat weight on you and stuff weight in your pack is always better. To a point...

Edited by Vertigo on 07/26/2010 11:35:19 MDT.

ok, losing weight isn't a bad thing. I wasn't the one who was talking about fat %. My (our) point is we should be allowed to enjoy our hobbies without being told to lose weight. Taking weight off our pack makes every step lighter for us just like it does for you. If i take additional weight off my body that continues to make each step lighter, but again at what point are we talking about people who hike a few times a year vs people who do it professionally. Why do i need to lose 50lbs to enjoy a few weekends of hiking? Wouldn't it be offensive if we attached every aspect of people's life style that if changed would improve their trail comfort. Do we insist people stop smoking? Do we require a blood test before each hike to check for doping? It is just recreation. If a big guy wants a light weight rain coat who the F are you to tell him to lose 50lbs?

-Tim

Tim you make a really good point. I definitely see where you're coming from. I guess I'm just coming at it from a different angle.

I think that ones health is important and yes everyone has the right to do whatever the heck they want to their bodies. Smoke, drink whatever it's your body. I just think that if you're going to engage in any physical activity one should have a certain level of fitness. Rolling around on the ground with you for an hour requires a different conditioning level than hiking. (I just hope that you would spoon me after all is said and done)

If we're talking UL backpacking in my head I'm thinking go up Friday after work do 5 miles before it gets too dark do about 10 on Saturday stop to fish, hang out drink some Scotch hike out on Sunday. So you're right in that perhaps the individual should define what it is they're really setting themselves up for.

But I feel like backpacking does require a certain level of fitness (if you know what's good for you) and to me it feels like individuals try to use UL technology because they're too lazy to change their lifestyle. Which hey that's a valid approach. But I'm just saying if one does that AND cut a little weight off their jelly-belly you'll be a much happier hiker.

Edited by Vertigo on 07/26/2010 12:03:02 MDT.

I'm loosing my mind, FROGGTOGGS were intended to be my suggestion. O2 and DriDucks were too poorly cut. Original post amended.

Alex,
I like to shake thing up a little. I go through periods of extreme fitness and then I get fat. I'm at the bottom of the fat stage right now, I'm fixin to hit the gym.

You have a good point, your delivery just sucked. Big does not always equal fat and fat guys enjoy backpacking too.

I believe: lightest gear no matter what size or fitness level.

Also, America is badly out of shape. So I wouldn't discourage anyone from hiking. If they want to spend $1000 on cottage gear as an excuse to get some exercise, great, let them (me :) ).

I'll get tired hiking with no pack right now. Then again, thru-hiking, speedhiking, and fast packing were never on my agenda.

Most of my chubby beer guzzelin friends quit backpacking because of their 60lb packs. I tried to turn them to the light side to no avail.

+2 to Alex for supporting fitness
-1 to Alex for the delivery of his point
+1 to the big people for getting their hike on

@ Daniel - Agreed my delivery really sucked. But I meant well.

I just want people out there to be happy and having fun

Daniel thats for that post - you were able to nail down what I was saying in a much better way.

again, i am not trying to say that losing weight won't improve your experience.

My biggest frustration is that whenever one of the big guys asks for advice about a pack, shelter, quilt, jacket... that is made to fit them and not the little fellas someone feels that instead of finding gear that fits their body they should just go change their bodies. This is unfair and isn't what anyone is looking for.

Earlier this year i posted about pants for 2x-4x and in order to feel like 90% of the posts wouldn't just tell me to get on the treadmill i had to preface that i wasn't interested in life style advice, just answers to the questions i asked.

You can have whatever opinion you want. But i hope you don't seriously think that you're going to open anyone's eyes with a snarky comment about losing weight instead of buying a new jacket. I'm sure he read that and was like "
oh snap, i am fat, i never realized. I will go right now to the gym and work out. I will not re-enter the wilderness nor will i post on BPL until i am fit. I'm off to change my life because of Alex's insight"

I just think us big guys should be able to ask big guy specific questions without people inserting their opinions about our weight. If i want to know about pants, and you have the answer to my question then by all means, but otherwise save the cometary please!

-Tim

Cage Match.

i would just take him down and lay on him! Apparently its all I can do.

I am obviously frustrated by the fact that anyone can ask any question about gear and get a gear related answer until it is about gear for big guys. Then the answers are judgmental and non gear related. I just want those who i could eat in 2 bites to keep their elitist comments to them selves. If i have a gear question i want a gear answer, i am sure the same is true of the OP.

I am done arguing and fighting, have a great day all

-Tim

Hey Tim - I was just trying to lighten the mood and am on your side.

It reminds me of a question about a solo tent and then someone chimes in about a Hammock. Or when one asks about a type of camp shoe and someone pipes in about not bringing additional weight. ETC.

Take care.

I can understand your frustration, but at least the responses are still relatively on topic i.e. suggestions for gear or other options that are out there that you may or may not have thought of.

None of those responses are an attack on you yourself, your makeup or any part about who you are as a person and the perceived flaws that someone assumes about you as an individual.

+10 to Tim's posts ("ok, losing weight isn't a bad thing...")

It's a shame the big guys have to rattle off claims about being fit and big. I'm fat. Get over it. I may walk 5-10 miles every single day during the summer, winter, and spring but in the end that's irrelevant. I'm here looking for the same thing everyone else is- info on gear and techniques that work for me.

Being overweight isn't a good thing- fat hikers already know that, so it's hard to see how your original comments could be intended to be anything other than mean spirited.

The minimum level of fitness is whatever it takes to get it done- if it takes someone 20 minutes to hike a mile rather than 10, what the hell do you care?

Maybe my problem is that I've never been on any of the really popular trails- are there knots of panting fatties keeping the worthy from passing through on sections of the AT?

OK, bringing this thread back on topic, as promised I'm letting you know how my AGG jacket worked out. I just got it in the mail, immediately shut my office door and tried it on and it is an AWESOME piece of work. It fits well, not as big as an XXL Driducks, but certainly with enough room underneath to fit a baselayer and mid layer if need be. Also, as promised, it came in at 5.3 oz.

I think I found my new favorite piece of gear.