I joined just over a year ago...I came for the interpersonal slapdowns now that I live in Switzerland and can no longer watch E! Entertainment TV...had no idea this was anything related to lightweight backpacking. What a great surprise.

Every forum is going to has gems and a bunch of "not so useful info." This one is no different. There are a wide variety of "hikers" on this forum ranging from casual backpacker to the fastpacker to the gear nuts leading to several "best answers" to any question. When someone posts a gearlist they will get input from others most of which is very predictable. The poster can choose to accept or tailor it to their needs.

I do agree that there is an obsession with gear. If I could change one thing it would be more discussions on hiking with trip reports. But rather than get frustrated with those things that aren't helpful, be thankful for useful info because at least for me it can be found here.

This is backpackingLIGHT.

Lightweight recommendations are what one should expect when asking for input. Most posts are given with tact and from experience or reviews the poster has read.

Arrogance, "if your don't do it this way then you're wrong", or giving an air of superiority is uncalled for from anyone on this forum. This type of thing has increased over the years, as BPL has grown.

That said - I have received so much from people here that has made backpacking more enjoyable. I have, in turn, used what I've learned to help friends (and hopefully some that I don't know on this forum) get outside and/or enjoy it more.

It is natural to sometimes get less out of a resource as your expertise and experience grow, and that has happened to a lot of us here. I still enjoy BPL, in spite of some individuals whose thoughts I could do without.

If it "ruins backpacking" for you, then I respectfully recommend not reading the forums for your own peace of mind and backcountry enjoyment. No offense intended.

This is backpackinglight if I'm not mistaken. Which to me means that topics are going to include and be biased towards going lighter. If you want to talk about carrying heavy gear there is always whiteblaze gear forum and backpacker magazine's forum.

Really it seems to be these long winded and semi pointless topics that are killing the forums. Everyone has different needs and requirements for their style of hiking and the environment they live in so what is light to one may be heavy to another.

Rich, it sounds like you have much to learn regarding UL backpacking, and that's perfectly acceptable, we all do. UL backpacking is such a subjective and personal experience, what works for one individual in Bozeman, MT doesn't always work or isn't exactly necessary for another in Moab, UT, get my drift? Take what people say here with some grain of salt, and know when to take the years of wisdom and experience that many have to offer here with discernment. Apply or don't apply what you read here in your own forays into the backcountry, frontcountry, backyard, whatever. At the end of the day, it's your time outdoors, spend it how you like to and don't get caught up in brands and cottage this, or REI that, because unfortunately, your "People are ruining backpacking" rant is doing exactly that. You end your tirade boasting about what gear you're going to be sleeping in for the sake of humor, which serves no purpose here or is in any way edifying or positively contributing to the forum or your point of view.

Also, as far as personal attacks and generalizations, it's really easy to sit back in the cockpit of an armchair with a laptop in hand and throw out barbs at individuals across the country whom you have no contact or experience with, so it's best to err on the side of caution and "benefit of the doubt" issuing, a big dose of humility goes a long way online, especially considering how much content is taken and pulled out of context.

Lastly, just for clarity's sake, I've been conducting a personal test with my BPL Beartooth Merino hoody, I've worn it for 6 months for everything from weekly trail runs, bushwhacks, around town, multi-day backpacking trips and have yet to wash it or noticed any stitching or durability issues, even with my pack shouldered on 25 mile days. Not bragging, just sharing with you what I've seen. Again, that's my own experience with that item, a further testament to what works for some doesn't work for others, let's not throw out too many erroneous misconstrued facts or rely on other peoples post to serve your purpose, as you did in your OP. Hike your own hike, live your own life.

I have and use gear from both cottage makers and mainstream companies. I don't get our for a lot of long trips as I don't get much vacation from work, but I still get out for ~40 nights a year.

I know I have and use gear from

Gossamer Gear
Six Moon Designs
Nunatak
Alpinlite
Kooka Bay
Mountain Laurel Designs
Trail Designs
End 2 End Trail Supply
Backpacking Light
ULA

I also regualry use some mainstream gear that fits into the UL catagory

Mountain Hardwear
Black Diamond
Sea to Summit
Thermarest
Golite
Smartwool
Ibex
Patagonia
Mont-Bell
Lands End
Marmot
OR


I can see why people sell gear like Tarptents with very little use. I picked up a Contrail on here that had only been used one night just to try it out. I used it a couple of nights and will re sell it on here as it is heavier than my Gossamer Gear SpinnShelter/Alpinlite Bug Tent 1.25 combo (That I love - Spent about 60 nights in so far). I also just bought a lightly used MLD bivy just to play around with and might end up selling it if I cant find a place for it in my system. Just becouse someone is selling an "almost new" product doesn't mean it is a bad product, just they want to try something else, or it didn't work for them.


BTW: Though I have and really like some of Golite's gear (Ultra 20 Quilt, Reed Rain Pants, Silkweight Base Layer, etc), I think Skurka uses it more becouse it is free to him then becouse it is the best in every catagory.

I genuinely feel bad for those who let other people unnecessarily ruin their experience.

If the government passes a law saying you have to adopt the opinions of the BPL commnuity, then you could say that we ruined backpacking for you. Until then, you can always leave. That's the reason I don't participate on PBF or Whiteblaze any more. I didn't care for the environment so I chose not to go to the sites. If BPL is not to your taste I'm almost certain you can find a place on the internet where people with similar interests and opinions as you congregate.

Just be aware that, by rule, everyone on the internet is a fanatic about something. That's the reason there are forums, so people can discuss they're obsessions. Just remember there will always be zealots and people whose definition of "discuss" largely overlaps with "argue."

Adam

I have been backpacking long enough to remember when some of today's mainstream companies were cottage industries and some were swallowed up by large corporations that were not even outdoor companies.

"Really it seems to be these long winded and semi pointless topics that are killing the forums."

I think posts like the one from Rich serve some purpose on this forum. I don't know what that purpose is exactly, but the controversial posts seem to have the most replies. It's like a catchy news title - once you see it, you want to read the whole thing! And since this is a forum, we feel obligated to leave our opinion. It's the nature of these things. All posts serve some purpose.

The members on this forum fit into a large spectrum. Give your opinion. Take what you want, leave what you don't.

And as soon as I get rid of this lyme disease I will get off this site and back on the trails! wooohoo!

I think the real problem is for newbies on these forums. I was / am one and I know I made several mistakes in the winter when I sat here in my apartment, read posts here and spent much time obsessing over details and weight that turned out to be COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT when I hit the outdoors as the weather got warmer.

I have learnt much from here but I find that the more I hike, the less I am interested in what people have to say here.

So warning to newbies -- some aspects are blown way out of proportion on these forums.

8 oz or even 1 lb of extra weight in your tent or pack isn't the end of the world -- get something you like and will be comfortable with. I know I made mistakes this way..

Best of all, GO HIKING while you try to go UL.

The only way it can ruins backpacking is the fact that new lightweight gear is becoming more and more prevalent resulting in more and more people not being to use the excuse of too heavy loads.

Hammock Forums has almost been ruint for me. It used to be really neat; to read about the new advancements in hammock gear, and have a tight knit group. Now, you have EVERYBODY coming on board, with newbie questions, EVERYDAY. You really can't keep up with the forums, you have atv riders, motorcyclists, jeepers, motorboaters, car campers, fisherman, on and on. There are so many people getting into the sport that not only are the masses going to take all the good trees, it's losing it's "cool factor".

I haven't read all the postings on this thread, but I read the first one, and I get the gist.

Alas - I might be one of those "elitist" voices you comment about.

But - There is a very real revolution going on, and the norms surrounding backpacking are changing (fast). I think that BPL has a role to play, and it can be a leader in this extremely exciting chapter of history. People are doing amazing things, and much of that info is being cataloged here on this site.

Yes, this is a lightweight camping forum, and personally - I take the "lightweight" part seriously.

I think we should all be challenging each other to a higher standard - and doing so in a very polite and encouraging way.

I teach this form of camping to beginners at NOLS and thru BPL's WT school, and I take a decidedly "enthusiastic" approach when I share info. I think the benefits of the lightweight pack are very real, and it goes way beyond some cool gear. There is a deep spiritual component to being in the Wilderness with very little on your back.

peace to everyone,
Mike C!

"I am starting to believe that there are some people on here who couldn't do 12 miles in 3 hours with a 15 lb pack on."

I don't know about you all....but I see little reason to hike at 4 MPH ;-P Who cares how fast anyone else hikes? How does it matter?

It doesn't matter if a person hikes .000001 mile an hour or trail runs. It doesn't matter if they can only get out for an hour or if they can do a 6 month thru hike.

This belongs in Chaff. It is just trolling.

Chaffish.

Edited by biointegra on 07/15/2010 09:18:55 MDT.

Hf is growing rapidly, but the forums there are managed much better than here. At hf, important threads such as the whoppie sling thread get stickies by responsible mods. True there are slot of newboes who post the same type of thread over and over, but it's a still a good place. The innovation will still occurred i the brains we have there-see nacrabiner, u I'll just have to search harder to find it.

"I genuinely feel bad for those who let other people unnecessarily ruin their experience."

+1

My rule of thumb is that if I can say "People are ruining [something I care about] because of what they are saying", then I'm starting to take other peoples' opinions too seriously, and need to remember that I don't care *so* much about what others think.

I guess "ruining backpacking" was a poor choice of words. I was referring to the ones who take gram counting to the extreme. As I said in the original post, not everyone wants to carry a ziplock back with shoe lace straps. And not everybody wants to cut 4 inches off their toothbrush to save a gram. I'm really surprised someone hasn't mentioned shaving off all body hair to save a gram.

I am somewhere in between UL and LW. I will post a gear list in the near future. I don't own a scale and I'm not going to buy one, so the weights are going to be what is posted on websites.

As one stated about who wants to hike at 4mph. If you search on this site, you will see that it has been said multiple times one reason to go UL is so you can hike further and faster.

Another stated about these cottage manufactures are making the gear that thru-hikers are using these days. True, but this whole thru-hiking thing isn't new there buddy. I'm 100% sure in the 80's there wasn't a single person on the CT, PCT, or AT carrying a SMD pack.

I'm not bashing the cottage companies...to an extent. It seems that they do make quality stuff for the most part, even though it takes 6 months to get something. I do believe that some are going a little too far when it comes to weight vs durability, but since that really isn't stopping people from buying their stuff, why change?

And lastly, for the people who said something about those who have a full time job and can't really get out as much as they'd like. Great, congrats on your job or career. But please, stop talking like you spend more time outdoors than the new guy that had the guts to sign up and ask a question on here. As I mentioned in another post, it's not hard to be UL when you're only gone for 2 hours.

P.S. I am leaving in an hour to go spend my weekend in the wilderness. Feel free to PM with your thoughts so this useless thread can slowly make it's way to a page that will no longer be looked at. :)

Choice. Choose to read or not. Choose to buy and sell gear or not. Choose to get angry or not. Choose to be lightweight or not.

For me, I have two hobbies: backpacking and collecting backpacking gear. I have a huge collection that's always changing and I use all of it. I enjoy reading about gear, reviewing gear, and also reading about people's experiences both in the field and in their use of gear. But the reason I love this stuff is that I absolutely love backpacking.

So I'm heading to the mountains with my son today to enjoy backpacking with him. But I will also enjoy using a Flytepacker packraft and a Tenkara rod- both new for me.

Hope everyone is well and enjoying themselves. If you aren't, I highly recommend walking away from your computer.

Best wishes, Doug