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Michael Ray
(topshot) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
LDPE no-sew (almost) tent on 07/11/2010 17:21:36 MDT Print View

Thought I'd add a thread here for my first prototype of a LDPE tent.LDPE tent
I hope to use this in the Wind River range in a couple weeks.

You can see the original tent that spawned this and somewhat of a genesis of what I've gone through so far in this thread.

I was aiming for not having to sew at all but you can see from my last post on that thread that didn't work out with the mesh seams at least.

Tarp body weight was less than 7 oz. Size is 8x6. Likely doubled with the mesh skirt but don't have a total weight yet as I haven't figured out how to do the mesh door closure zipper-free. Thinking either ziploc pieces like Rog Tallbloke or snaps like Roger Caffin. Maybe I'll stay with the rolling and binder clips for now. Any suggestions?

Yohei Aoyagi
(zzz_bear) - MLife

Locale: Tokyo
Re: LDPE no-sew (almost) tent on 07/12/2010 06:52:30 MDT Print View

Good job!
I'm thinking same design. But this time I bought zpacks hexamid.

Kronos Master of Fate
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: LDPE no-sew (almost) tent on 07/12/2010 07:00:06 MDT Print View

Looks great! With that weight I would just make easy on myself and add a #3 zipper. Can't weigh much more than binder clips.

Michael Ray
(topshot) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
Re: Re: LDPE no-sew (almost) tent on 07/12/2010 10:44:57 MDT Print View

That may be true Ken. I have a zipper I could weigh and use. Al found in his original A-frame design that he had to fold it in a special way to avoid deforming the LDPE when packed tightly because of the zippers and cordage. I was hoping to avoid that hassle. Roger's 2 snap design would be lighter and simpler though I did not add a baffle to the door or have a floor to hold up as he does. Walmart didn't have any large plastic snaps though - just small and large metal ones you had to sew in. I'll need to go to a hobby or fabric store.

I'll also have to sew the mesh to the tent as I suspected. Rained last night and it separated from the tape in some areas. Just waiting for Al to respond on how he did it without gumming up his needle. My attempt at sewing through the tape was not good.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: LDPE no-sew (almost) tent on 07/12/2010 18:44:39 MDT Print View

The snaps work, but the more important bit is a simple overlap of the mesh by 6 - 8". The snaps stop that from blowing open.

Cheers

Michael Ray
(topshot) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
Re: Re: LDPE no-sew (almost) tent on 07/12/2010 19:33:25 MDT Print View

I should have at least 8" overlap as I had seen your idea and wasn't sure which way I was going to go. I assume your snaps are the press-in vs sew-in kind?

Daniel Fosse
(magillagorilla) - F

Locale: Southwest Ohio
draw string on 07/13/2010 10:34:23 MDT Print View

Nice work,
I am thinking of making a bug hut that has a draw string entrance. I think it would be simple enough to leave some slack material in the front pannel, cut a circle out of the front and sew in a draw string around the circle. Kinda like a stuff sack. a piece of thin cord and a cord lock would be simple and light.

Colin Parkinson
(parkinson1157)

Locale: Ontario Canada
draw string closer on 07/14/2010 20:58:02 MDT Print View

Dan

That is brilliant.

I mad a bug bivy early this year but have not worked out a good closure method, as I find zippers and bug netting lead to snags, tears and tears.

This is one of those why didn't I think of that episodes.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: LDPE no-sew (almost) tent on 07/15/2010 02:11:02 MDT Print View

Hi Michael

Yes, definitely press-in or rivet variety. Pics of them and na MYOG setting tool in the MYOG poncho article
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/myog_mntn_poncho.html

Cheers

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: draw string closer on 07/15/2010 02:12:28 MDT Print View

> zippers and bug netting lead to snags

And the hook side of hook&loop fasteners is absolutely murder on netting!

Cheers

Michael Ray
(topshot) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
Re: Plastic snaps on 07/15/2010 07:54:04 MDT Print View

Roger,
What did you use for backing to keep from tearing the netting?

Michael Ray
(topshot) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
LDPE tarptent weight on 07/15/2010 14:32:26 MDT Print View

Finally weighed it now that I had to sew the mesh on vs just tape. 10.6 oz (298g) for LDPE, tape, noseeum mesh, 5 short shockcord tieout loops, and 7 short Triptease guylines. Doesn't include door closure, stakes, the long guyline for the pole or the "storm door" I have yet to make, but it should still come in under a pound for total weight.

I didn't put the shockcord at all the tieout points, just the 4 corners and the middle of the 8' back. That's to reduce stress during windy conditions or so I hope since I'm going to the Wind River Range. The plan is to start with the guylines to get the most headroom. If a storm's coming in, I'll re-stake using just the shockcord loops. If it looks really bad, I'll just stake it to the ground using all the tieout points and put up the storm door if needed since I'm not using a bivy.

Michael Ray
(topshot) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
Re: LDPE tarptent weight on 07/25/2010 20:48:43 MDT Print View

I'm not going to make my 16 oz target. :( I'm at 16.6 with everything except the "storm door" now. However, that also includes extra LDPE and tape that had to be used as patches after my dog tore it up, and I ended up using a zipper for the mesh door closure. I couldn't figure out how to use snaps when my opening width varies up to 20". I suppose I'll also need to add in groundcloth weight. On the bright side, it did handle 35 mph winds during a storm yesterday.

Lawson Kline
(Mountainfitter) - M

Locale: LawsonEquipment.com
Film Thickness on 07/30/2010 14:40:55 MDT Print View

Hey Michael,

Nice job on the construction. It looks like it was made in a factory. What thickness film did you use?

Vick Hines
(vickrhines) - F

Locale: Central Texas
Re: Film Thickness on 07/30/2010 16:07:45 MDT Print View

You might consider not using a zipper or any closure at all. Just make the net upside down = the apex of the triangle faces down instead of up, and make it 6 inches longer - taller. It will drape on the ground and you can just lift it up to get in or out. Put a pocket at the center of the bottom to hold a water bottle or shoe to hold it down in the wind.

Michael Ray
(topshot) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
Re: LDPE Film Thickness / Zipper or not? on 08/11/2010 10:15:18 MDT Print View

Lawson,
According to Heatsheets, they are 1 mil vs typically 1/2 mil for mylar blankets.

Vick,
I think the added weight of the required mesh would exceed that of the zipper at least in my application. The zipper was < 1 oz. Keep in mind, my opening width (bottom corners of the tarp at the door) could vary from 60 to 80 inches.

FWIW, the tarp worked well on my trip. My next design will offer me more room (eg, steeper walls) to move around without touching though condensation as expected was not too bad. I hope to make a short video detailing this one and you can see the damage my dog had done to it.

Michael Ray
(topshot) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
Re: LDPE no-sew (almost) tent on 08/15/2010 07:43:38 MDT Print View

FYI, total system weight including a heavy stuff sack of the right size I happened to have (& a little dirt and moisture) was < 22 oz. I could lose some with Ti stakes perhaps and not taking so many. Al's design had tieouts every foot where I did every 2 feet. I never used all of mine but we never had gusts above 30 mph.

I hope to make a video of the new gear I had on this trip vs last summer which will show some more detail on what I did for this tarp and what I've learned for future designs.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Plastic snaps on 08/15/2010 15:38:40 MDT Print View

Hi Michael

Sometimes I just sewed over a double layer of netting. That holds reasonably well in practice. Other times I used a narrow strip of silnylon to bind the edge.

When using snaps I had to use an area or strip of silnylon with a small square of heavier fabric (1" square say) to hold the snap. Opening the snap is done via the silnylon, not the netting, of course.

Cheers

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: LDPE tarptent weight on 08/15/2010 15:40:05 MDT Print View

> I ended up using a zipper for the mesh door closure. I couldn't figure out
> how to use snaps when my opening width varies up to 20".

Generous overlap. It keeps the bugs out, and is a lot lighter than a zip.

Cheers

Michael Ray
(topshot) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
Re: Re: Re: Plastic snaps on 08/15/2010 17:23:24 MDT Print View

>> I ended up using a zipper for the mesh door closure. I couldn't figure out
>> how to use snaps when my opening width varies up to 20".

>Generous overlap. It keeps the bugs out, and is a lot lighter than a zip.

That wouldn't work with just the 2 at the bottom as you have. I'd need a row going up the overlap to prevent huge gaps forming when I was pitched at a smaller door width. My zipper only added an ounce, likely less since I lost about a double layer of 8"x40" mesh. I was pleased with the no-fuss performance of the zipper.