MLD Prophet 20 or 30?
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Christopher Plesko
(Pivvay) - F

Locale: Rocky Mountains
MLD Prophet 20 or 30? on 07/07/2006 08:39:39 MDT Print View

Anyone have one of these? I think I'm going to order a 30 but there aren't a whole lot of reviews out there other than the BPL review of the 25.

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
MLD Prophets on 07/07/2006 10:55:19 MDT Print View

The 30 is more versatile of the 2. A more realistic volume for a UL weekend backpack. I have the original 25 and could easily employ an extra 5 liters. other than the extra volume, I think the original review applies and think it's the best stock pack of it's type in the land. I've used it for trips as long as 4 nights, so far. The very narrow profile keeps it out of harms way on my off trail ventures and truly carries comfortably w/ 15 lbs.

The 20 would serve best, I think, as a superlight summit daypack and stuffbag. Which I notice is what Ron Bell suggests it for.

Christopher Plesko
(Pivvay) - F

Locale: Rocky Mountains
Features! on 07/07/2006 11:30:16 MDT Print View

I'm not hiking. I'm mountain biking (mostly) in remote areas. Attempting the 360 mile Grand Loop and 500+ mile Colorado Trail in light and fast fashion next summer (2-5 days each). The sternum strap and waist belt are essential for me and the space for 2x2L platy's with one drinking hose is so nice. With the prophet 20 i'm afraid that the water inside the pack will eliminate even more of the 1250in3 and I won't have enough for even my small load.

UL biking requires a bit different thinking in some ways with "bike weight" aka what you wouldn't bring if you were hiking but having as small a load as possible on my back is key. Racks are trailers aren't an option to cover so much technical terrain in a short time.

Keep any good info on the packs coming :)

Chris

Elliot Lockwood
(elockwood) - F
Re: MLD Prophets on 07/07/2006 13:40:19 MDT Print View

"I think the original review applies and think it's the best stock pack of it's type in the land."
I agree with this statement. For its weight and targeted audience, it has the best featureset and design, I think.

Also, the pitfalls discussed in the review have for the most part been fixed.

Christopher Plesko
(Pivvay) - F

Locale: Rocky Mountains
Re: Re: MLD Prophets on 07/07/2006 13:52:47 MDT Print View

Forgot to mention that the usage of closed cell pad between the bag and back is a big draw. How does that work for those of you who have the pack? What width is your pad cut down to?

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Re: Re: MLD Prophets on 07/07/2006 16:29:45 MDT Print View

I use a 6 section z-lite bungied to the back of an MLD P30 as well as a 1/8" full length pad rolled up inside. Works fine. You could go to an 8-section... but it's not recommended to have the pack TOO far from your back. The MLD P30 does not have a pocket... like the GG Mariposa. You just use shock cord laced thru the lashing loops along the sides of the pack. I like the rolling option too... I like that a LOT... and if you use a 3/4 length inflatable pad and deflate it before rolling... you will still have plenty of pack volume. You'd start to loose a lot of volume if you tried to roll a thicker foam pad inside. It really is a small pack.

Oh... and expect to wait 2 months for your order. Ron is pretty backed up with backorders. I can't wait for him to get caught up... I'm DYING to see (and most likely order) one of the new Spirit Shelters.

Edited by davidlewis on 07/07/2006 16:31:32 MDT.

Christopher Plesko
(Pivvay) - F

Locale: Rocky Mountains
Pad on 07/07/2006 16:58:12 MDT Print View

I'm thinking a cut down blue pad in torso length cut into segments. How wide is a z-rest segment?

Sounds like I better put my order in. Don't really need the pack soon but at least I'll be holding my place in line.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Pad on 07/07/2006 20:32:05 MDT Print View

A 8 segment z-lite would be about 20" x 38". A 6 segment would be about 20" x 28".

On my last trip... I used a 6 segment z-lite (strapped to the back of the MLD P30) combined with a full length 1/8" Gossamer Gear ThinLight (rolled inside the pack... burrito style) on top of a LuxuryLite UL cot (3/4 length cot). Very comfy and more than warm enough on a 0°C night.

Previously... I've use a Thermarest ProLite 3 3/4 length pad with a Gossamer Gear Mariposa pack... but I've packed the MLD P30 with the Thermarest (burrito style) and it works great.

Never tried using foam pads other than the z-lite in the MLD P30... but anything about 10 inches by 20 inches will work. You may want to look at the Gossamer Gear NightLight torso pad too... 'tho I find it a little on the small side.

Personally... I love the burrito style of carrying a pad... and it give a LOT more structure to a paper thin pack like the MLD P30 than the back panel method... but you can lose a lot of volume with a thicker pad... esp. with such a small pack!

Edited by davidlewis on 07/07/2006 20:36:10 MDT.

Christopher Plesko
(Pivvay) - F

Locale: Rocky Mountains
Burrito style on 07/07/2006 21:30:28 MDT Print View

are you saying roll the pad around the inside of the pack leaving the middle or "burrito fillilng" to be your gear? That's actually not a bad idea! Never thought of that!

Elliot Lockwood
(elockwood) - F
Re: Re: Re: MLD Prophets on 07/07/2006 23:39:58 MDT Print View

I use a Gossamer NightLite torso length in my MLD 30. It works well in the bungees, and I often strap other things in them, such as poles, a jacket, or a book.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Burrito style on 07/08/2006 04:32:10 MDT Print View

Christopher... yup... that's what I'm saying :) I like it because it gives the entire pack some structure and shape... plus I'd say that it helps protect the fabric since it gives the fabric a consistant and resilient backing material. But again... don't expect to roll up a full length ridgerest or something and have much room left for gear. A short 1/2" pad would work ok... as would an air mattress (deflated).

Edited by davidlewis on 07/08/2006 04:35:14 MDT.

Ron Bell
(mountainlaureldesigns) - F - M

Locale: USA
Re: MLD Prophet 20 or 30? on 07/08/2006 08:44:26 MDT Print View

Hi, Note that I am changing the naming of my packs. The Prophet naming sequence idea worked for about 2 days...As I receive good reviews and feedback I make tweaks and change the numbers and it is now a bit confusing. I will keep Prophet for the original one, the 25 upsized to the 30. It's now about 4.75 oz stripped and has a few mods that improve it a lot. A bit bigger than the original 25 and 30 by a hair, maybe about a 32.5L or so. The 20 model is now the Monk Pack, simple like the 20 was and about 2.5-3oz (Med and Lg sizes) but with better small features/options and construction, all silnylon. (Small Pack Design Note: At the 20-30 size the hardware, buckles, straps, etc make up about 50% of the pack weight and the body fabric / mesh the other 50%, so using tougher silnylon Vs spinnaker in the 20 size only changes the weight about .5oz but increases the strength a lot. So that make sense to me.) A new pack in-between the Monk and Prophet will be the Revelation Pack made of a special cuben fabric Spectralite.60, one rear pocket and about 3oz. The old Prophet 40, which has proven tough to get as light as I wanted and the original use of AL tube stays has turned to a solid CF rod wand hoop stay is TBA for the new info/specs/name. ( Existing 40 orders are now being filled with the updated pack, much better and the same weight as when ordered. All existng 20 orders will be the new Monk Pack in silnylon and folks have universally liked the improvements so far. Returns always OK and I'd revert to the orig. as a replacement if asked. Existing 30 orders will stay pretty much as expected but will feature a few upgrades that increase strength but not weight. An upside to being a one-at-a-time very small cottage builder is that I can react to better ideas , materials and feedback in real time to improve the product. I do lament the long order times and am working on a few processes to improve that. Thanks to all who have waited and offered feedback. Also, I use a short 36" X 5mm X 18" pad rolled in a tube inside the snall pack myself but many small lash loops and mini bungee are provied to if you like to lash a folded flat pad the the pack bettween pack and back. Ron

Christopher Plesko
(Pivvay) - F

Locale: Rocky Mountains
more decisions on 07/08/2006 11:35:53 MDT Print View

Oh man now I'm more undecided than ever. One thing that I don't want is a big pack. The smallest I can survive on the better as I don't want the weight and bulk on my back for technical biking. However I was worried that the smallest pack when combined with a very cut down sleeping pad, ~3L of water, an 11-16oz down bag, and my 7oz bivy might be full? I still need room for food, ti mug, esbit and some extra clothes (windshirt, tights, hat, pullover). Bike stuff has it's own bag though so I don't need room for that.

I need a waist belt and sternum strap. They are essential. If I sacrificed 1 or 2oz's of pack weight for significant duribility I would. Again I'm not hiking and chances of a spill are higher although as minimzed as possible since help is often a long way off.

I'm still banging away at a gear list. Got my esbit last night and it's going to be just the ticket for me. My big trips are next spring/summer but the more I can shake down this summer the better.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: Features! on 07/09/2006 14:41:09 MDT Print View

Chris, why is a rack not an option for the pack? Is it because of the narrow areas you will be riding? I wondered about using a pack while biking but the 10-15 pounds on my back putting more pressure on the saddle didn't seem like fun.

Christopher Plesko
(Pivvay) - F

Locale: Rocky Mountains
why no rack on 07/09/2006 19:04:54 MDT Print View

The rack is more of a liability and extra weight. It's harder to manuver on really techincal stuff. We're talking 50,000 vertical feet of climbing and descending over 340 miles. They are unnecessarily heavy, make the bike even more "rear heavy" and there just are no reliable light weight ones.

I'm used to carrying extra weight on my back between 10-15 pounds and it's quite managable.

There's lots of little reasons I prefer to go without a rack too but the basics are too much weight, bad weight distribution, unreliable and encourage taking too much stuff.

Neil Bender
(nebender) - F
Re: why no rack on 07/10/2006 06:36:28 MDT Print View

I've never toured off road, but have had some success with unconventional ultralight unsupported tours without a rack. My logic is that the main triangle is already a frame, so I built a 3 inch thick silnylon triangular bag with coroplast stiffeners (recycled political campaign signs). In it goes UL clothing, tarp, esbit stove, cup, etc. My handlebar bag looks large, but is just a down quilt so the weight doesn't affect steering. Hydration is a small underseat bladder. Of course on the road I don't need to carry much water or food. Filling the frame with a bag does make severe cross winds feel stronger. For off road you might get buy with a larger hydration pack that has room for extra gear. Also, my pad is a BMW torsolite, it also goes in the quilt bag. Anyway, just some ideas you might be able to apply.

Christopher Plesko
(Pivvay) - F

Locale: Rocky Mountains
front triangle on 07/10/2006 07:51:19 MDT Print View

the front triangle bags are great, if you don't have to lift your bike very much. Areas with a lot of hike-a-bike that gets a little frustrating. One race this year was so bad that people didn't even wear clipless pedals from all the hike-a-bike!

victor marshall
(victor@vrmarshall) - F
Re: Features! on 07/12/2006 07:24:53 MDT Print View

I have a 30. Definitely a better idea than the smaller one. You can cinch down the 30 for smaller loads, and the weight isn't much different. Very well made.